Feedback on Yamaha luggage
 

I had a closer look at the Yamaha luggage system for the Z yesterday. I like that it fits neatly on the bike and is fairly slim. Has anyone get any feedback on the strength of the system, in particular has anyone dropped a bike yet with this on ?

I do know someone who used the top box key in the side pannier by mistake and as it was the wrong key the key snapped off, is this good or bad?

Good as it means it did not open, bad in that the key seems weak?

I need some luggage for an offroad trip and if I thought the Yamaha system would stand up to the bumps I would go for them.

Any thoughts

I'm debating much the same thing Scottnet...

I think it depends how far you want to go 'off-road'... I'm sure it would hold up to the odd dirt road or trail to a campsite, but day in day out on washboard piste (for example) is hard on any luggage, and looking at the Yamaha boxes, the mounting system (and the main carcass of the cases) is plastic, and I reckon would soon start to wear and/eventually fail? or at the very least rattle like a ba*tard? I love the way it connects to the bike though, like you say...

Yes the Yamaha set is warrantied of course, but the warranty is of little use if the mountings fail a thousand miles from anywhere?

On the whole, overland travelers tent to use 'proper' aluminium boxes (ie. not plastic ones skinned in aluminium) or soft (and waterproof) Ortlieb style bags and panniers...

Having felt the weight (and seen the price!) of the Metal Mule pannier system, while I have no doubt it would hold up well overlanding (as opposed to primarily road touring), the additional weight and substantial cost really doesn't convince me... not unless security was of paramount importance.

Alternatively Touratech boxes are lighter weight (in both senses of the word), but as yet they don't have a rack for the new Tenere... likewise the Hepco Becker rack system doesn't seem to be available just yet?

Personally I'm going for soft bags for my next jaunt - keep it simple, keep it light...

JennyMo xxx

yamaha top box
 

Maybe this is the right place to ask this. Does anyone know if the Yamaha top box will fit an Arai Tour-X, I just cant seem to get a look at any of this Yamaha stuff.

I took both panniers & top box (although Yamaha say you should use one or the other) 8146 miles, everything from Fast forest gravel to bl00dy awful Romanian (war zone like) roads, and like everyone else I was worried about it's ability to stand up, had Touratech had a carrier I wouldn't have even considered the Yam OEM stuff. I did drop the bike, on gravel at about 30km/h, happy to report that the only damage was a slight scuff to the hand guards (Yam OEM ones) and some marks to the pannier. I'm quite suprised by the durability of these, and would certainly give them a go off road, although I would make some modifications and fix a stabiliser bar across the back, and I will as soon as I get chance (got my Fazer in a million bits right now, and there is still too much daylight available for some green lanes).

Yes it does, but it's tight.

I have commented the oem panniers here, here and here. Love the mounting system in theory but I wouldn't recommend them.

Hi, re the yamaha side cases.....

My key snapped in the lock on the first trip and in the first week. That was nearly a month ago and I'm still waiting for the second fix as the first failed and didn't make it out of the dealers.

My view is a set of soft bags or a Givi set would have been a better alternative given the price and availability af the other aluminium cases.

My view is yamaha have got quite a bit of work to do before their boxes can be taken as serious contenders for the type of riding the tenere is meant for.

Think carefully before splashing the cash on the Yamaha kit.
:director2: still waiting!

See my pics&talks on the Hepco&Becker thread, I prefer the alu panniers and yes, they're already available since september. The Yamaha system looks good, but on the long run, especially when you go offroad, you'd better pick the alu panniers or softbags, like Jmo said. Greetz, Hans.

P.s.: one pic as an appetizer, look for more pics on the mentioned thread.

I have the Yamaha stock panniers. Dropped the bike once at standstill, nothing happened to the mount, just some scratches on the black plastic bit. Keys can be way better. Got poured once, and found two drops of water at the bottom of one of the cases. I think there is some gap between the outside alu part and the black plastic part where the water got in. Inside stuff could get dusty, so I used plastic bags to cover the top. I think they will hold up in offroad better than most think because of the design, but yes, the mount is plastic. I too bought them because of its looks (with the minimalistic pannier holder when the panniers are off) and I got a good deal from them.

I've been watching this subject with interest, as I'm tempted by some hard luggage for the Tenere, even if my sensible head means I do stick with Ortlieb soft-bags for the more serious off-road adventure stuff...

While I like the way the Yamaha system works/looks, it seems my fears about longevity and robustness are coming to light when people have started to use this stuff off-road.

However, I think I might have found the answer?! - Caribou Cases in the US convert Pelican cases into proper panniers (with locks, retaining straps etc - see info in link)...

http://www.cariboucases.com/store/?n...=i&item=000132

...and while they don't have plans to produce their own specific rack mounting for the Tenere (unless it comes to the US as an official model), their ALS system allows the Pelicans to be quick-release fitted to SW Motech EVO frames, which are available for the new Tenere (for around �169 in the UK).

Yes you could buy a pair of bog-standard Pelicans for less and bolt them directly to the EVO frames (which are quick release themselves), but the Caribou conversion and QR system makes it more versatile - and the whole set up would only cost a little over �400 for the pair of panniers and the SW Motech rack.

Best of all, I think a pair of Pelican case would look way cool on the new Tenere - especially a black one!

Worth considering?

I know I am...

xxx

Just an update -

Last weekend (as mentioned in some other threads) I managed to get the bike through some pretty serious flooding, on the same ride the roads were wet/muddy so the bike did get a bit of a covering - and I had the top box on!

Yesterday, I tried to get the sodding thing open, and it was as sitff as hell, so I had a run over to the dealer (J&L Motorcycles in Carlisle) and asked them to take a look. I must confess that every problem I've been to see them about (I've three Yamaha's, TTR, Fizer and the Ten) they have resolved on the first visit, in my opinion they really are top notch. Fountain of knowledge the lot of them.

Anyway, they squirted some, what they described as 'Lock Oil' into the barrel and working of the lock - got it home, so it had had a chance to work it's way in - and the lock is better than new, smooth, and it doesn't feel like it's going to snap.

Maybe part of the problem here is that the locks just don't have enough lubrication ? I know when I stripped down the lock on the panniers and lubricated them they were 100% better, a bit rough now, but they have been half way around the world.....:YellowWow_KKPB92:

Hi JMo, the caribou looks cool. They remind me of the vario cases from BMW R1200GS. It looks like it would be the similar 'plastic', but hard plastic, material. All good and I think they are sturdy enough to take abuses. However, the GS cases were really heavy in and by themselves. One would think they would be light since they are 'plastic', but they are not. It said it weigh 10lb 4oz., I am not sure if it's only one or a pair, but 10lb 4oz is not light for empty cases. May be something to consider, or try to see them in person to feel the weight before ordering online. I agree that they would look cool with the black tenere though.

The BMW R1200GS cases have a sliding skin and lever mechanism to allow for expansion. Both cases also have an outer alloy plate for style purposes. The left hand case also has a heat shield attached. The cases are also substantially braced as they only attach at three points, and the top mushroom seems to take most of the load.

I did consider the caribou, but I went with the BM cases when I had my GS as I could buy them at a 'shop' and they were easy to fully remove.

Hi Josephau - the Caribou cases are basically converted Pelican 1550 cases (that retain the lifetime warrenty). The 1550 model have a 35 litre capacity, and like all Pelican cases are super strong and can even be driven over with a 4x4! They are often used by photographers/film makers for carrying equipment (they used to be used on the Camel Trophy) and are the strongest/most waterproof plastic cases you can buy (unlike the BMW ones, sorry EnglishGent...)

You are right that they are a bit heavier than a typical plastic case (or thin aluminium like Touratech) - but they are surprisingly light for such a strong case, and certainly lighter than the Metal Mule aluminium boxes for example.

What Caribou do is produce a quick release mounting system to connect the cases to their own frames (typically BMWs and KLR etc) or their ALS connect system that allows quick release to a Givi or SW Motech frame, so they work like any other pannier case (in fact quicker than some, as you don't have to remove the contents to disconnect the cases eh Touratech?!)...

It is a shame they don't seem interested in producing their own (heavy duty) frames for the cases (although you can buy the ALS system for the SWM frames) for the new Tenere, as I think they'd have plenty of overseas sales while they wait for Yamaha to officially import the bike to the States... I even offered to visit so they could take mesurements, but there you go...

I guess for now they'll have to be paired with the SW Motech frames.

xxx

As you will be aware my side cases have been in for repair for almost 4 weeks due to problems with the locks. Although I take comfort in the fact other members on this site have managed fine with a bit of care and lubrication I have lost confidence in the yamaha kit.

To be fair to Yamaha and my local dealer they have treated my problem with concern and done all the right things. I would have preferred a refund but Yamaha are supplying me with a brand new set of side cases and a promise to support me by repairing etc whilst in warranty and considering any other problems sympathetically after that.

I expect to get the brand new cases by next week. I am undecided as to whether or not to sell them on. I don't know if anyone can suggest what a fair price would be for unused cases and the sidestays etc which have had only had the other side cases on once. (I am undecided about selling them and I suppose just throwing it open to see what response I get before throwing the towel in and looking for an alternative.)

blowup

I just checked the prices, they are EUR 407 each or EUR 765 for the set. Perhaps you can try to ask the dealer to give you back cash that is less than EUR 765, and the argument is they save a set of cases for the next Tenere buyer at a higher margin, and you get the cash you need to buy another one aftermarket. My feeling is that your selling them on your own would not gain much when compared to what the dealer may give you in cash. The reasons are that 1) the cases are well known that they are not that great, and 2) a lot of people find them well over-priced and would rather go for aftermarket cases. All you do at this stage is to ask the dealer to give you a number, and then you think about it and gauge if you can sell them on your own at a better price. You've got nothing to lose here just to ask. My two cents.

Hi and thanks for the advice. I have made tentative approaches to get my money back but both the dealer and Yamaha have made it clear that they are not at the point of refunding money.

As you say I wll Probably lose a lot of money by selling them now but having thought about it, would probably let the panniers go with the side stays and lower brackets for �375 excluding postage. (At todays rate that would be 520 euros to change into �375 at the post office.)

I don't know. Is that a reasonable price minus the postage?

I am sorry to hear that the dealer and Yamaha weren't too helpful in refunding. It is difficult to say what the fair price would be. On one hand, over EUR 200 or almost 33% discount of the spanking new cases sounds a lot; on the other hand, given my previous reasons, the number of potential buyers may be few. I think you could research the prices on other aftermarket cases including mounts, and try to come slightly below them in order to entice the 'on-the-fence' buyers to buy yours.

OK, I just had coffee so I have a few ideas, but may be you've already thought of, so apologize in advance if I am being redundant.

1) Before your dealer puts the new cases on your bike, you ask the dealer not to throw out the boxes and inspect them and try the key before you accept them. If you are not 100% happy, don't accept them, and you give them time pressure as you've lost so much time without the cases. If you are happy, keep the boxes which would be handy and give an added impression that they are new when selling them.

2) Go to the source which is Zad - not sure of the spelling, may be other blogmates can help - the company that makes the cases for Yamaha as well as the R1200GS vario cases for BMW. I saw them at the motorbike show. Tell them your situation and ask if they have any suggestions or could make improvements.

3) If you have the time and patience, try contact multiple dealers in your area and try to sell the cases directly to them at a discount.

4) Or let them know that whoever buys the Tenere from them could get your new cases at a lower price, and you entice the dealers to help hooking you up with the new owners by paying them a small commission.

5) Ask the aftermarket guys like Touratech to help you sell them. I did it with my old yet unused alu cases from my GS. The business is slow right now for these guys and they concentrate their time these days on unloading their stock as well as customers' unwanted stuff on ebay and alike in exchange for a small fee. I got mine 80% of retail value. I didn't do the ebay thing myself because I didn't have the time and they have both the shop and the website plus the established trust as entry points for potential buyers.

They would be a lot of work, and no one knows how much higher price you can get than the EUR 520, but then no one knows if you could offload it at that price either. I hope they help. Good luck.

Hi, thanks for the advice, to be honest I'd not thought of any of the ideas you suggested. Your ideas are certainly worth giving some serious consideration. I will wait and see what the new panniers are like and if they look as bad as the old ones try and get a refund from the dealer using the time issue etc. If this fails I will have to give it some thought. Once again many thanks..... I will let you know the outcome next week when the cases arrive.

:sad8:

I've found the lock on the Yamaha top box to be quite stiff - a wee spot of chain lube in the lock should sort it. It's also easy to think you've locked it, pulled the key out, but then the lid still pops up. Perhaps it's just me being gormless, but I do now always press down on the lid hard when locking it just to be sure.
Hey, at least it ain't the ignition key that's liable to snap, eh? :happy3:

Well the saga continues.
The new side cases arrived and after tentative turns on the key I announced that the locks on the new cases were much better and success may have been achieved.

In the excitement the salesman grabbed the key and said, "let me see how much better these babies are!" With that he jammed the key in the lock and with gussto almost snapped the key.

The latest is the dealer is paying an automative locksmith to examine the locks to see if he can make a stronger key and make the locks a little less stiff.

Watch this space. Four weeks and counting..... Lets see what happens next. Full marks to J&S Doncaster for being polite and helpful.

so... is it safe to say that the cases are great but the locl/keys are crap? :munky2:

Ive thought about this a bit and possbily the locks themselves tight to close. Its maybe something to do with the design so that there is no play in the lock so when used on bouncy ground the lock doesnt come loose and all your gear fly all over the show.

Not to be annoying but has anyone tried to push down on the lid of the case hard before they insert the key and then turn slowly.

My deauville panniers needed some nack to get them opened

That's a valid conclusion.

Then in that case if enough of you complaint to Yamaha, it should be an easy fix for them to change locksmith manufacturer.

I would concour with that. They are very stable over the rough stuff - This I know from experience.

Yip, thats just what I do, the rubber seal inside the lid requires that they are closed tightly, if it was slack the complaints would be about water getting in.

I had my lock lubricated by the dealer, they work perfectly now. Not tight, no risk of a snapped key - perfect.

Inside the mechanism, it's a pretty complicated setup, it's not a normal barrel and catch setup - it's a low profile ABS setup - this allows for the same lock to opperate the lid and attaching parts. Plastic on plastic, with the smallest piece of dirt will give problems - lubricate it with the right oil and it works fine. I tried a few different oils, then the dealer (J & L Motorcycles - Carlisle) put some stuff in that he described as 'lock oil' and,,,, problem gone!

I would suggest that the problem here isn't with the parts themselves, but the lack of PDI and incorrect lubrication. Me, I've a great dealer with skilled technical staff, this appears to be the difference.

The problem is in the springs
 

Well eventually the automotive locksmith stripped the locks down at the dealers and found the springs inside the locks to be to long.

The dealer explained the problem as follows..... " inside the barrel of the locks there are three springs. It appears the springs are 3mm to long. Although this doesn't sound a lot it is sufficient for enough resistance to weaken the key and cause it to snap in the lock. To compound matters the mechanism is plastic and will take time to bed in. The locks will become less stiff as they are used."

The dealer went on to say the locksmith chopped the springs by 3mm and oiled the plastic mechanism.

The result is 100% better. The luggage is now on the bike and ready to use. Although it is a little stiff It is no where near as bad as it was. I no longer fear snapping the key and expect the locks to improve with use.

The dealer informs me that he will be contacting Yamaha to give feedback however, my view is as the Capt suggest to have some sort of poll to see who has got the luggage and to see if we as consumers are happy with the locks.

I don't mind collating feedback but wouldn't know how to conduct a satisfaction survey.

Hope the advice re the springs helps.

bigwink

Congrats XT660ZRider! AM happy for you that the issue is resolved. I will also try to put some "lock oil" on mine, I have to find it first though.

Tears once again. Perhaps I spoke to soon but when I got home from work I thought I'd check my cases and marvel at the ease at which the new locks worked.... Unfortunately, the key jammed and after a little care I removed the key with fears it was about to break.

I have contacted Yamaha who were very appologetic and state they will send my cases by courier to the people that manufacture the sidecases and give me a full refund.

I don't want to be to harsh on the panniers because if i'm being honest i quite like them. If the locks can be sorted out i think they are very stylish and worth the money.

Sorry to hear that, but as you say you love the cases why doesn't yamaha take them to a professional locksmith at their expenses to fit a decent set of locks instead?

Having bought XTZ660riders bike and panniers my solution was to strip down the locks , clean all the oil off and spray with furniture polish ! :unibrow: Seems to work ok now - lid needs to be held down when locking and probably when unlocking too to reduce load on the key . I have also radiussed the key where it is cut to reduce the stress concentration - time will tell if it allows the key to survive !

The problem does seem to be with the locks themselves, and that the keys seem to be made out of cheese?

Surely (as Capt Moto suggests) a far better solution would be to fit better quality locks with stronger keys?

Perhaps Yamaha will revise the specification - and offer a retrofit?

Me, I'm increasingly tempted by the Touratech set-up, even if their raw aluminium boxes make everything you put in them black...

xxx

Touratech panniers
 

Yes, I have been studying the issue of panniers for quite a time now, I really like the look of the Touratech frames, which would enable chopping of tail as back cross bar seems higher up and they look tough. I too, wasn't too keen on their panniers, maybe another type of pannier could be used on their frame ie Metal mule?
I did however like the look of their Zega flex though, but would like the option of hard panniers also.
Any views on this would be appreciated.

You can use any kind of panniers on the Touratech frame/rack, drill holes and use the mounting hardware set, that you can order seperately at Touratech. Only take care of sealing the panniers or they'll leak at the holes. For instance: Metal Mules, Hepco&Becker, Bernd Tesch, SW-Motech(Trax), Zarges, Pelicans to name some brands. Or make your own, if you got the skills to do that. It's up to you and your budget. Advantage is, you can hang your panniers as high or low as you wish, or the angle of the panniers for that matter. Just google some names and take your pick, good luck and greetz, Hans.

See Chris Scotts site link via here or the HUBB, he used zega flex cases on a recent trip.

I got the Yamaha top-box on the 22nd to take some stuff back home and because I thought it was a simple neat solution for when I need to carry a bit more than my Kriga R35 can hold. I'd certainly agree the lock has some 'character', mainly make sure you close the lid firmly and likewise firmly push at the top of mounting flap at the back.

Other than than I'm very pleased. I rode home on the motorway and virtually forgot it was there, even fully loaded with fruit (also had the Kriga simarly loaded). The only time I was aware of any difference was when filtering and going over the cat-eyes which were bouncing me this way and that, took slightly longer for the bike to stabalise itself after each one.

Solution to the lock 'problem'
 

I've mentioned this a few times, well today (whilst looking at a rather good deal on a XJR1300) I asked the dealer what lubrication he used on the locks (on my luggage).

Just to recap, my locks work perfectly well, there is no snapping or bending of keys - they are a bit more delicate yes (but better that the stock TT ones - that fall apart! <experience> - I ditched the locks and used padlocks instead, but that's a whole other bike and story), but perfectly servicable. The key thing here is that out of the box (sorry, no pun intended) the locks are rubbish, mainly beacause Mr Yamaha failed completely to lubricate them. If you rub two pieces of plastic together - you're going to get problems! unless you are trying to perfect the art of hand manipulated welding...

Anyway, to make a complete mountain out of a short story, my dealer (being a good one, and having a wealth of real technical knowledge, about bikes) squirted a bit of lubricant into my locks (Oh 'er missis) and they have worked faultlessly since.

The lubricant he used was Wurth HHS2000, dunno how much it costs as he donated the remains of his tin to my cause... so Ididn't need to buy any.

Canned Magic- absolutely brilliant stuff. Its a highly adhesive capillary grease, which basically means it sticks like **** to a blanket and get where other greases wont, then sets into a proper grease not an oil. I use this every day on locks and latches at work and its great.

a lot of bike shops sell wurth stuff, ask for the HHS2000 by name, don't let them give you HSW100, HHSFluid HHSGrease or anything else. HHS2000 isn't cheap but you dont need much so it'll last ages.

if anyone is stuck let me know, i'll source it through work.

Can you say where exactly he squirted it in? In where the key goes or elsewhere if you know?

In every available hole, I think - can't be 100% sure as he had his back to me. you can only really get access either through the keyhole or down inside the mechanism when the lid is open.

I am considering getting the Yamaha panniers. Can anyone please let me have the internal sizes of the pannier please. Thanks.