In Germany, this company www.alphatechnik.de is selling the pair for EUR 919 for titanium and EUR 679 for the aluminum, both including german taxes. The stainless steel 1-in-2 connector pipe is EUR 189 also including taxes. They have been listing these two items since summer and were expecting availability in October but nothing happened. The italian site, this german site, and the Arrow official site post zero information on weight/weight savings from stock and power difference. I just don't understand how they expect people to buy them just with the picture and without details or info on if it fits various pannier/racks. I did write them to inquire but I am not hopeful of getting any meaningful reply.