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Stage 2 Hot Cam
I now have a Stage 2 Hot Cam to add to my list of mods.
I quite like this cam it pulls really hard up top, I should have used this cam on my previous Raptor 700 conversion. I have spent most of today building the fuel map. http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...evxtx/1-48.jpg http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...evxtx/2-46.jpg http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...evxtx/3-36.jpg http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...evxtx/4-31.jpg http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...evxtx/5-22.jpg http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...evxtx/6-17.jpg http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...evxtx/7-16.jpg http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa202/kevxtx/88.jpg |
Is that your bike Kev? (with O2 sensor?)
Great photos...I bet it pulls like a train!! Is it a high lift/short duration cam? |
It is a wide band O2 sensor for my Wide Band Commander.
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Intake Intake lift (mm): 10.30
Intake lobe center (degrees): 111.00 Intake duration (degrees at 1mm): 260.00 Intake valve lash (mm): 0.10 Exhaust Exhaust lift (mm): 8.60 Exhaust lobe center (degrees): 102.50 Exhaust duration (degrees at 1mm): 243.00 Exhaust valve lash (mm): 0.18 |
I realise that you have only just done this, and haven't used it much, but where roughly does the power "kick in" Kev? Are you using the recommended cam timing?
Have you noticed a drop in pull/power in the lower revs, ? I need more feedback!!lol!! |
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down boy, down! |
Below 5000rpm less power but very smooth, above 5500rpm to rev limiter power all the way. I hit the rev limiter in 2nd & 3rd without realizing it is reving that high. It revs very easily now. If you do not ride your bike hard this cam is not for you.
I will get it on the dyno for a run, then advance the cam 4 degrees then do a compassion run. The stage 1 hot cam gave me 6.76 extra HP at 7000rpm over a the standard XT660X cam tested on the dyno, so I would expect an extra 2 to 3 more HP over the stage 1 at 7000rpm. A possible 8.5HP gain at 7000rpm. |
:gobain:.......i can wait (for another 10 seconds!)
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Very nice!
Looks like these cams are fairly easy to change? Are they worth the initial outlay though? |
Very easy to change took me an hour.
Depends on how you ride, if you can't build your own fuel maps the cost goes up, ie dyno tune. Also the Hot Cam is not a complete swap over, you need the Raptor 700 decompressioner & sprocket, bought seperatly. |
Well, like you say, I quite often hit the rev limiter on my X.
I gotta admit, I do miss that surge of power high up in the revs like my old ZX10 used to have... Hence why im tempted with the Hot Cams. |
I never ride that hard Daz, so am the opposite to you. If I did any further mods, it would be without sacrificing significant low/mid range torque/hp. (Big bore sort of thing)
I like the Bottom/Mid range grunt my bike has, and I suppose 90% of my riding is below 5500 revs....just as well, as its an "R" ! |
Then a big bore kit is for you.
What I do know is a 12.5:1 102mm piston kit & a stage 2 hot cam will beat any XT660 with your mods across the rev range in HP & Torque from idle to top end. |
hmmm....where to I get a piston kit from? Any links/recommended suppliers?
I was initially going to do a big-bore straight away, but didn't really get involved in it...then got (nicely) side-tracked along the DNA Stage 3 Airbox thingy. I guess that a DNA 'Box and a big bore/higher comp. will be the mutts nuts for me! I'm very tempted Kev! |
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The best piston kits are CP at a price. JE Wisco CP A big bore on the XT offers more HP & Toruqe over the whole rev range, most of the XT,s HP & torque is hidden in the head. |
Thank you Kev, I don't want to spoil your thread by going totally off-topic, but I see that link is for a 700cc Raptor, where does the sleeve/liner come from?
Who do you recommend for gas-flowing? Do you know anyone in the UK, Kev? |
Not spoiling my thread at all, it's all XT related.
Two ways to do a big bore, buy a new Raptor 700 cylinder, or rebore & replate a XT660 cylinder. You would have to do the costing to see which is cheaper. I do not know of anyone one in the UK, as I did my conversion myself two & a half years ago. You could always go with the mother of all big bores, machine your casings & fit one of these. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Yamaha-Raptor-700-cylinder-jug-engine-BIG-BORE-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ290458561243QQptZMotorsQ5f ATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories How much cash do you have? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Raptor-700-Cylinder-Head-Ported-1mm-Big-Valve-Cam-Seal-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ350325415133QQptZMotorsQ5f ATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories The only problem putting to much torque through the XT is it will more than likely break the gearbox. |
hey Kev,
When will you send last dyno chart I'm very curious difference with stg1 and stg2 cam but your bike's you know I bought stg 2 cam last year but not install yet :) |
I must admit I perfer the stage 2 cam to the stage 1.
With the stage 2 hot cam & the stage 3 air box it feels very simular to the big bore + stage 1 cam up top, I would guess my XTX is around 56/57 HP now. The bottom end is alot less without the big bore & higher compression piston. I will get it on the dyno sometime. |
Who said we cant get 60HP from a standard XT660 motor, I am nearly there, a +3mm throttle body should do the trick.
Ok the results from these mods. Standard XT660X motor. PCIII Carbon Can exhausts DNA stage 3 Air box Stage 2 Hot cam A 31% gain in HP over a standard XT660X 58.96HP @ 7000rpm 48.68 Ft/lbs @ 5500rpm The best run we got was 59.11HP. So I think the stroker crank is going to be the next mod. I am not here trying to be the king of the castle just trying to provide all the facts to see what Hp we can get from this standard XT motor. The Dyno testing today was carried out by Dynojet Australia. http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...Untitled-2.jpg |
Blimey !! a cracker of a result there.....maybe put the cost of it on here !!!!
A very effective cheap power gain............... are you sure you're not trying to beat us all????? With a stroker crank, you will have a real flyer.................... |
Congrats Kev. Brilliant end result.
I crunched some math and the volumetric efficiency is off the charts. Some of the highest I have ever seen actually. It leads me to think that if you don't run a +3TB yet, mathematically it is highy unlikely that the TB will give you much more power. A larger throttle body will only give you more power if the smaller TB is restrictive and by looking at the VE values, that is not the case. Plus a larger TB normally also reduces low end power output. |
that was more than an hour's work, fitting and dialling it in. ?.....Nice job Kev !!
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well, technically, I quite believe it's an hours work. Fitting the cam at least. The dialing it in with the PC3 is a little bit more than that, then dyno run etc.
Just a case of removing the covers, slackening the few nuts off, making sure you don't drop the chain. Ensure the timing marks all line up when you put it back together and voila, Stage 2! I'm certainly interested. Where did you get it from Kev? and the Raptor bits? |
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The HP gain is great up top , but comes with a hole in the torque between 2500/4000rpm.
Below is the latest mods on BLUE, against my big bore 102mm 11:1 & a stage 1 hot cam stage 1 & 2 filters In RED. http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...xtx/stage2.jpg Next dyno run shows the blue line by just adding a stage 2 hotcam & a stage 3 air box to the green line mods. Hopefully a stroker crank will get that bottom end back. There is such a big difference when adding the stage 2 hot cam & stage 3 airbox over 10 hp at peak. http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...x/Kevsmods.jpg Last dyon run is a stage 2 hot cam in BLUE against the standard XT660 cam in RED. http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...x/Xtstage2.jpg |
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Thanks Freez it is always nice to have your input. The XT feels so crisp from 5500rpm upwards, I just need to get the bottom end back using the 100mm XT 660 piston to prove you can build a cheap fast XT660. Do you have any dyno results using a 5mm stroker crank on the Raptors? I have been searching for dyno runs with befores & afters, having asked a few Raptor boys but have no luck in finding the HP & Torque gains just from the stroker crank. |
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You will also need to buy the 700 Raptor decompression bits & cam sprocket, have a look at my Raptor conversion for all the bits. |
Hi Kev.
Yes I have a dyno run of a stroked, stock bore raptor, running a stage 2 cam, versus a stock bore and stroker running similar mods. I will need to go look for it. From what I can recall, the stroked, stock bore gained lots of low end torque, but lost out on peak power versus the stock bore and stroker. But, this might not be a bad mod for the XT, since the stroker lost power after the 7000 to 9000 RPM range, and the Xt does not allow you to rev there anyway. Also, found something very interesting just now. Compleate raptor 700 102mm barrel, gasket set and high compression piston, for $560. All brand new parts. http://www.cylinder-works.com/index....productid=1686 |
That would be great freez, if you could try to find the out put of the stroker crank for me.
That is a good price for the kit, the cylinder normally costs US$462.00 from the US. |
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By how many approx degrees would say if it were a Raptor to advance it low down?
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......what we really need is the Standard XT660 Ignition map...anyone???
it may actually need retarding..Kev...depending on mods.......... |
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I don't have any information...but timing isn't always Advanced for better performance...it can be Retarded too. (from standard) I have found that the 2004-2006 models the Ignition is 9deg @1450rpm and that the 2007-2009 models is 5deg @1450rpm......so both types are not the same..... but that is the only information I can find on XT660 ignition timing....i.e. not a lot! |
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If you want to know what the Raptors like as in ignition advance & retard speak to Freez as you know he has played extensively with these motors & has the dyno runs to prove what these motors want as in in ignition advance.. |
A few things I have learned with playing with ignition timing on the raptor and one XT.
One ignition curve does not work for all raptors. The compression ratio you run, bore size, fuel octane rating, all plays a big role in getting the ignition timing sorted out. I have built stock bore raptor with about 12.5:1 compression and tried their ignition maps on big bore, stroked raptor motors running 14:1 compression and it does not work. I did try a raptor ignition module on the XT and the stock XT motor did not like the stock bore raptor ignition maps one bit. Personally, I think the ignition module will not add much to the Xt's power output. The raptors have deliberate bad timing from the factory to reduce power output. the XT's don't have the same problem. |
Freez, which ignition module was that?
I want to raise the rev limit from 7200rpm, so I think I may need to sort out ignition/fuelling. Did the ignition module you used, raise the rev limit? thanks Freez |
I used a dynatek programmable ignition module made for a raptor 700. The unit will allow you to change the RPM limit, but is useless on an XT.
The XT's rev limiter is controlled by the injector, not ignition. I personally wish it was the other way round. the reason why I tested the ignition on the XT was in the hope of extending the stock XT's rev limiter to 8000 RPM plus, but no joy. So, in theory yes you can programme the dynatek ignition module to cut the Xt's revs at lower than 7200 RPM, but that would be stupid. the stock XT's rev limiter is already to low for my liking. |
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