Engine cutting out fault codes
 

Rode to work on Monday last week. Noticed something odd when she cut out a couple of seconds after firing up (first time as usual) in the morning. Tried again turned over a couple of seconds then fired up. Rode to work no problem.

So, my woes started after work. I had a couple of erands to run so I was in & out of heavy rush hour traffic. After about 10 minutes riding she cut out when approaching the lights...thought nothing of it as I have the occasional stall. But this time she cut out again while stationary which has never happened before. After riding on it happened again, tried firing her up while moving but couldnt. The engine light was on & 19 was on the display.

Checked Buck's error code thread...19 is the Sidestand Sensor error. Could it be something else to?

What's the deal now...do I need to change anything or can this be dealt with a good clean? I know that the cables going into the sensor can be linked together to override it, but I'd rather keep that feature.

Thanks
:icon_wink:

You could ask Kev.... if you were an XT Supporter...

:Tongue_HKIM7O: :pjrlaugh_61OD3G: :paypal: bigwink

check the cable connection on the switch attached to side stand ... it could be loose or corroded ... check that the sensor plunger is moving freely ... use some WD-40 on it
check the wiring between ECU and switch connector ... it could be damaged or broken
check that all cable connections to the ECU are attached firmly
you may enter diagnostic mode on your bike display and notice if the code no 20 is changing its value when putting side stand from resting position to drive position ...

medo is on it.

Ok guys, thanks for the feedback. The bike fired up no probs when I went to have a look last week, but I had a fiddle with the bits as listed above (except for the ECU) & sprayed loads of WD40 on the connectors, which were not corroded. So I went for a ride, after 10 minutes I stopped to get petrol, which is when the predictable happened....she didn't start up :( Managed to stop a helpful chap with a van who kindly gave me & the X a lift home.

I was going to check the ECU, but it has some sort of clip holding the cable connector in place. I didn't want to force it off in case I did any further damage. How can I take the clip off to check the ECU connections?

ALso, anyone got any other ideas as to the problem?

Thanks
D

ok, so I just checked the ECU...all pins in place & clean as a whistle. Removed & checked sensor + all connections. Still no action :(

Also managed to snap off the little catch that secures the wire connector to the ECU :( :angry

we were talking before about sidestand switch ... if you been driving your bike for about 10 minutes and than stopped for getting some fuel on petrol station, means that you must have parked your bike on sidestand ... just try to remove that switch from its place and check weather plunger is moving easily ... I don't know for the moment if there is any possibility to dismantle it into the parts but it'll be good idea so you may check condition of interior parts, mainly contact surfaces and any sign of corrosion

The bike was on paddock stands before I rode it. You're right, when I was at the petrol station it was on the side stand...that's when it stopped working.

I forgot to mention that I also tried connecting the black and blue cable together to bypass the sensor (using a scredriver to connect the two pins) but it didn't work. I then disconected the battery hoping that it would reset the ECU so the fault would be cleared...still no luck.

Not sure if the senor can be dismantled, looks like a sealed unit. I'll give it a go though. Thanks for your help :thumbsup:

Check the side stand switch with a multimeter.

Right, not sure how multimeters work...are they like voltmeters? What setting should it be on and what sort of reading should I be looking for?

Kev, I thought that connecting the two wires would bypass the sensor allowing the bike to run without it. When I combined the two pins in the connector using a flat screwdriver the error code was still showing. Does the ECU need to be reset to clear any rectified fault readings?

Yes the ECU needs to be reset.

Then do the test again, you need to put the bike into gear for the side stand switch fault to be logged again, if it is faulty it should cut out & log the same fault again.

Use the resistance setting to check the switch. I think the idea here is that if the multimeter shows that the switch is working ok, then you could use the multimeter to make sure the cables from the switch to the ecu are good.

Cheers
Jimmy

I was going to go there, but if you do not know how a Multimeter works then electrical fault finding can be hard.

Denny do you have a mulitimeter?

Thanks for the response lads, going to have a crack at this tonight.

Kev, ECU reset...how to? Disconnect the battery for 10 minutes?

*edit* just seen your last post Kev. Hopefully there will be someone who knows how to use a multimeter with me tonight.

Also, when you say test, should I reset the ECU, start the bike with the stand up, put it in gear then put the stand down?

To test the side stand switch set the multimeter to OHMS, unplug the connector behind the left side cover. Connect the multimeter wires to the switch side of the wiring, now operate the side stand up & down, what readings are shown with the side stand up & down on the multimeter? Just a reminder never do any test OHMS using a multimeter with the ECU plugged in, it might pop the ECU. I would unplug the ECU just encase you test the wrong wires.

To clear the fault memory, go into the Diagnostic screen of the dash, page to zone 62 then flip the kill switch off, on then off again, this will reset the fault memory. The dash in zone 61 & 62 should read 00.

Ok, last 2 questions before I try this I think...should I reset the ECU before I try the test? Also, slightly confused...do I attach the multimeter to the cables coming from the sensor. Not sure how it can give a reading if the sensor is disconnected?

Thanks for your patience :)

You only clear the fault memory when you are finished all testing & every thing is plugged back in.

The connector is unplugged, the multimeter is connected to the senor wiring only.

You set the multimeter to OHMS, this will pass a current thought the switch. The current will flow from the meter through the switch & back to the meter, it will display a reading. Can you give me the results displayed on the multimeter with the stand up & down, they should be different.

I am off to bed now 1145pm in Oz, let me know how you get on.

Sleep well Kev, thanks for your help :)

Ok, here's what I did.

Disconnected ECU, checked OHMS reading for sensor switch:

Stand up: flickering between 00.1 - 00.2
Stand down: no reading

I then reconnected everything & tried to reset the ECU. Zone 61 read 0, Zone 62 read 1. When I flicked the kill switch on/off as per the guidance Zone 62 did not clear the memory to 0. Don't know if it is of any significance, but when I flicked the kill switch to on that whirring noise (petrol pump priming?) stayed on...until I flicked it off again.

So tried starting her up & nada. The error code 19 was on the display again with the engine light on.

I also removed and opened the sensor itself up. Clean as a whistle with all parts apparently functioning visibly well.

Not sure what to do now?

as per your readings made by ohmmeter, standswitch is OK ...

find somewhere piece of copper wire and remove sidestand switch cable connector ... you should see two wires ... blue/green one you should connect with the copper wire to some bolt (not painted and not corroded) on your bikes frame or even if you can reach negative pole on your battery ... the idea is to bypass bad contact due corrosion or broken black wire on your sidestand switch ... you can also measure with ohmmeter resistance between black wire on cable connector and bikes frame or even negative pole of the battery ... do that and send us readings ... it should be 0 or near 0

when you are trying to erase malfunction history by using diag code 62, engine kill switch must be set to RUN position before entering code 62 ... then turn it to STOP and back to RUN ... memory should be erased

Morning folks :happy11:

Medo, thanks for your response. I followed the procedure listed here, and like Kev mentioned to erase the memory...with no luck unfortunatly.

Not sure I understood what you meant with the copper wire and bolt. Am I supposed to tie one end of the cable to the bolt (which in turn will touch the frame/negative terminal) and the other to the blue/black wires? And then try starting the bike and/or erase the memory?

Thanks
Denny

blue/green wire on sidestand switch is comming from ECU and black wire should be connected to the bikes frame, which is negative pole of complete electrical circuit ... when sidestand is in upright position, switch attached to it is bridging those two wires and blue/green is directly connected to the bikes frame ... when sidestand is in parking position, switch has function to open electrical circuit between blue/green and black wire on connector ... if the black wire is cut somewhere or it has bad electrical contact to the bike's frame due corrosion or lose wire, engine could not be starter (unless engine is in neutral gear or clutch lever is pulled-in - but forget about this now) ... idea is to connect blue/green directly to the bike's frame, somewhere where there is no paint and conduction of electricity if good enough ... this should eliminate problem with sidestand switch and perhaps broken black wire connection to the bike's frame

I can't make any photos with procedure of doing this, unfortunately ... perhaps Kev can do that ...

if you manage to make any of the above, try to reset malfunction history again and try to start the engine

I think you will find the circuit is a bit more complex & needs to be tested correctly as there is a blocking diode in the circuit, the side stand switch runs through the fuel Fuel pump relay.

Make sure the side stand switch is plugged together for this test, unplug the Engine ECU. You need to test the circuit from point 1 at the engine ECU with the multimeter on Ohms, with the red lead from the multimeter on point 1 & the black lead on the neg side of the battery, now move the side stand up & down, what are the readings?

If you get no readings from the last test, can you test the earth side of the side stand switch, red lead on the black wire on the loom side of the circuit at the side stand switch connector & the black multimeter lead on the neg side of the battery, what is the readings.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a.../sidestand.jpg

it is more complex ... I agree ... but if you have a look at the electrical drawings, you'll be able to see that several checkpoints can be found on the circuit ... it's not that hard to follow the diagram ...

For you & me it is no problem.

For someone who has never carried out electrical fault finding it might be. Thats why we offer one on one help on this forum for XT supporters.

And mighty grateful I am for your assistance :)

Thanks Kev & Medo, I'll get back to you with my results as soon as possible.

ok, here's what happened...

I attached the the black lead to the negative terminal, and the red lead to point 1 on the ECU plug.

The reading was 1005...no change when stand down.

Again black lead to negative terminal, red lead to black wire on clip...

The reading was 00.3 - no change with stand down. I tried it again at one point and the reading on the meter went a little do lalee. Removed leads tried again got the same 00.3 reading.

Medo, I didn't try your method, was a little bit worried I might frazzle something.

So, not sure if I did the checks correctly, but I'm hoping that there's a solution to this.

[quote=Denny]
I attached the the black lead to the negative terminal, and the red lead to point 1 on the ECU plug, as in the picture:

The reading was 1005...no change when stand down.
[/quote=Denny]

reading shows resistance of the diode while it is directly polarized ... I don't know what type of multimeter you are using but if you have ability to check diodes with it, you should do that ... when directly polarized (red lead to the pin 1 one the ECU and black lead to the blue/green wire of the sidestand switch connector) multimeter reading is around 0.7V and when reverse polarized (swap red and black leads) reading is infinity ... try to do that ...

this diode may also cause the problem


[quote=Denny]
Again black lead to negative terminal, red lead to black wire on clip...

The reading was 00.3 - no change with stand down. I tried it again at one point and the reading on the meter went a little do lalee. Removed leads tried again got the same 00.3 reading.
[/quote=Denny]


this reading is OK ... the resistance should be around 0 with stand down or up ...

Guys, I haven't had time to try anything recently other than my last post.

I'm not sure if I followed your guidance as requested. Grateful if you could point out exactly where I need to put the multimeter leads using the pictures I've attached. I think this will be the best way for me to understand exactly where I should be looking at to get readings in order to solve this issue. This will be the last chance before I have to load her onto a van to get looked at by the stealer :smilies0337:

I think these are the three points of reference needed for testing, other than the battery...

The ECU connection
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4461/img3746x.jpg

The connection between ECU and side stand sensor
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7229/img3741w.jpg

Side stand sensor
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6312/img3742r.jpg

put your multimeter on DIODE test ... connect RED lead to ECU connector blue/black wire (lower row; second pin from the left on your 1st photo) and BLACK lead to blue/green wire of the sidestand switch connector (should be left pin on upper - male connector on your 2nd photo) ... reading should be around 0.7V ... swap RED and BLACK leads and have a look on multimeter again ... reading should be infinity ...

Ok, so I tried the above, the reading was .65 with no change when I put the stand down. I forgot to try it with the red/black leads switched DOH!!! I can try that again tmrw if necessary?

I also tried Kev's test:

I was not sure what Kev meant by point 1 on the ECU connector. I connected the black lead to the - terminal on the battery, and tried it with the red on the pinhole corresponding to number 1 on the back of the clip as well as the point that Medo suggested above (lower row; second pin from the left on your 1st photo)

Here are the readings:
'point 1 on ECU connector' - 0.9 (no change with stand up or down)
'lower row; second pin from the left on your 1st photo' - 0.65 with stand up / 1.5 stand down (I may have mixed the figures for the up/down positions - long day at work...)

For info, I used the following multimeter on the setting circled in yellow for all tests above:

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2005/sku100181.jpg

Hope this makes sense? Sorry for the lack of brains...I have no idea how electrics work :hae18:

first test shows blocking diodes directly polarized OK ... 0.65 is normal reading when diode is directly polarized ... try to swap leads and measure again tomorrow when you find time for that ...

Kev was thinking on ECU pin 1 marked in blue by him on electrical drawing in his photo few replies back ... that is blue/black wire on lower row - second from left as I was suggesting ...

as per second reading values I suppose you were doing it with gear in neutral ... put the gear in any other than neutral position and measure it again ...

and I think you have mixed stand-up and stand-down as you said "long day at work" :)

multimeter you are using is OK

Right, got some more readings.

* Kev test 1 - Red lead to ECU / Black lead to negative terminal on battery. Tested with bike in gear. No change in readings when in neutral:

Stand up: .65
Stand down: 1.5 (number appears to go up quickly then screen went blank)


* Kev's test 2 - Red lead to black wire on loom side of circuit of side stand switch / Black lead to negative terminal on battery:

No readings


* Medo test 1 - Red lead to ECU / Black lead to blue/ green terminal. Tested with bike in gear. No change in readings when in neutral:

Stand up: .639
Stand down: .639


* Medo test 2 - Black lead to ECU / Red lead to blue/ green terminal. Tested with bike in gear and neutral:

Stand up + down: No reading

Did you make "Kev test no 2" with side stand up or down and did you have cable connected or disconnected from the side stand switch ... you should make this test with loom cable attached to the side stand switch and with stand in upward and downward positions ...

make also reading with red lead connected to black wire on loom side and black lead on negative battery pole, when loom is physically disconnected from side stand switch ... reading should be around zero

other test are giving results as they should be

Hi Medo, more results, here goes...

Red lead to black wire on loom side of circuit of side stand switch
Black lead to negative terminal

test conducted with loom cable attached. results were 00.3 (on setting 200 on multimeter, on the right of the 2K in the yellow circle in picture in prv post) for side stand up and down. No change when in gear or neutral.

This sounds like one of the tests I did yesterday under 'Kev's test 2' in my previous post?


Really hope that this is enough info to find the problem, as I am gagging to go for a ride now :(

Thanks for your support Medo :thumbsup:

Kev, grateful for your input too?

Denny I am watching, but with the 10 hour time zone difference, all your questions that you ask have already been replied to before I can reply.

It also can get quite confusing for the rider when you are asked by 2 different people to diagnose your problem with different lines of thought, so it is best left to one person to diagnose so not to confuse the issue, as medo says it is a very easy circuit.

Fair do's mate, I fully understand. I thought that this might be the end of the line as far as conducting tests were concerned, which is why I asked for your input.

Grateful and pleased to know that you are keeping an eye on developments, and that Medo has patiently provided concise instructions :)

Hello guys ...

I had to read all your post Denny to see what we have missed here ...

Please, take your multimeter again and put it on DC Volt with scale 20 ... that's 3 steps counter clock-wise from OFF position ... connect back all plugs except sidestand switch cable connector ... turn ignition key ON, gear in engine and put engine kill switch to STOP position ... now use RED clip of your multimeter on blue/green wire and BLACK clip on black wire of the sidestand switch plug - loom side ... you should have reading around +4.5 Volts ... if so, try to clear fault codes history by entering diag mode - code no 62 (engine kill switch set to RUN position when entering diag mode code 62; turn it over to STOP position and back again to RUN position) ...

if your multimeter shows nothing than use RED clip on blue/green wire and BLACK clip on battery negative terminal ... if reading is around +4.5 V then black wire is not connected to bike's chassis (battery negative)

if reading again is 0 then problem is to be traced further more from fuel injection system relay unit... will help you with that after you make above tests

sorry for delaying with reply but overload with work is around me ... you may have been doing some of the above tests before but this correspondence is after every 24 hours and lasting for weeks so I can ask you same question twice

Medo my friend, don't worry about the delay...I just got back from 1 week's holiday so I'm no better :) Thanks for your response, I will try the above test tmrw after work :thumbsup:

After I posted last I removed all of the insulation taping around the wiring to see if I could find any breaks in connection...all in tact as are the connection looms.

Edit...forgot to mention that I tried starting the bike a couple of times after all looms were reconnected. She turned over and fired up once...only to die after a second or two. Don't know if that signifies anything? Thanks

Sorry for this but it seems that this switch is causing a lot of headache. In my most basic of understanding the side stand switch cuts out the fuel supply via the ECU when the stand is down and a gear is selected. Surely if the bike cuts out when in neutral then it is not the switch.
In Denny�s last post he stated that he had her running for a while and the she cut out. Did this happen after selecting a gear or when in neutral?
Again sorry for butting in but I dread the day I have to get my Multithiny out.

Jason, it's a public forum and you are free to ask related questions or voice your opinion ;)

I personally don't have a clue what is wrong with my bike (obviously!). I'm guessing Medo & Kev are checking all posibilities to narrow down the cause.

The first time it happened the bike cut out a couple of times but I was able to make it home. A week later when I rode her again (ooo err!) she cut & didn't start again :(

As mentioned in my previous post when doing some of the tests Medo suggested I was able to fire her up while keeping the revs up, only for it to stall and the error message to appear on the screen.