For what it's worth, I would say any 'surging' issues at the speeds you guys are talking about are more likely due to a combination of any or all the following factors: tightspots on the chain, the (relatively) soft rubbers in the cush drive and the general drive chain slack required (as have been stated above)... you might also factor in labouring the engine in too higher gear, as the power pulses from a single have a more marked effect - particularly if you are used to the inherent smoothness of a multi-cylinder machine?

I am constantly impressed with the actually fueling - and the throttle response off-idle particularly in off-road situations where hesitant fueling would be irritating to say the least... and personally I've not noticed any glitches in the fueling on a constant throttle at the riding speeds mentioned above, and would say that any hunting or shunting is due to the final drive transmission, rather than the engine itself?

Or maybe I just got a good one?

xxx

Nope JMo not a good one, just a standard XT660Z. I have been mulling this issue over recently and I absolutely agree with you. It is the final drive that needs to be correctly tensioned. I was going to post a thread to ask opinions of 'surging' as to what it actually means and entails. But then I thought better of it. For instance the manual states some 60mm of travel in the chain mid-way along it's length. Now if that is for the standard suspension set up shurely I should be able to put more tension in the chain as I have installed a lowering link. The chain will be at it's tightest when the drive sprocket centre, swing arm centre and rear wheel centre are all in line. I aim to try and arrange this situation and tension the chain so that there is some free play and then see what extent this free play increases to when the bike is released with no weight on it. Does this make sense? I have just done over 550 miles this weekend with no evidence of surging other that the freeplay in my cushdrive and I think too much play in the chain.

Yep. I'd agree with that. I've played around with the ride style and come pretty much to the same conclusion.

I have a XJR1300, and when I jump from that to the Z I have to really think about my style of riding. It normally takes an hour or so to change mindsets before the Z is a nice ride again.

The biggest change is in the corners.

i have also fitted a metal mule lowering link and have a lot of surging when back off the throttle from 80-85 mph to go into a corner. have i too much or too little chain slack then! should i get rid of this c--p chain ? i cant imagine its the cush drive as i only done 770 miles.
any help greatly appreciated as bike feels like a nodding donkey.

Even with a new chain I've started to get some surging again after 500 miles or so and I only seem to be getting minor benefit when tightening it. It was perfect for the first few hundred miles so I'm getting quite stumped as to what the problem really is? The surging I have now is fairly minor (to what I had before) but still very annoying.

surging
 

Well this is interesting, I have been away on the Tenere in Morocco and had done 5500 kms and had experienced no problems whatsoever in every terrain and road condition imaginable, until I rode back on the autoroute through Spain and the as soon as I hit 4000 to 5000 rpm at constant throttle openings I got what I could only call surging as if the engine was hunting, everything went through my mind and I thought it could be bad moroccon fuel;no still the same after refuelling in Spain or maybe a dirty air filter, whick I had checked and found to be fine so all the way to northern spain I felt that any moment it would cut out or get worse, which it didnt but it was most disconcerting. I did have the chain fairly slack so will try to adjust this now and see if it makes any difference, after I have cleaned 2 weeks of moroccon dust and mud off (the khaki never looked so good!!)

I would not be too suprised if it was something that only showed on bikes that spend a lot of their time on the motorway (mine almost exclusively) or doing high constant speeds. Why that might be the case I have no idea though (constant high torque from a single knackering the chain perhaps as opposed to varying revs on other roads). I'd certainly be very interested to hear how you get on after you've adjusted your chain to see if it's any better or not.

Maybe I ought to speed up to 100mph and back down to 70 often to try and vary the revs more :sbike::HappyRoll_ANPIUI:

It would not surprise me if it is not emission control. The O2 sensor goes into the closed loop circuit at constant throttle openings, I know the XTX 07 ECU leans out at constant throttle openings.:emot-words:

What could we do if this was the case Kev.

Also would this not show all the time and (in my case) not be temporarily solved by a new chain?

I agree - I don't have the specs in front of me, but I bet peak torque is somewhere between 4000-5000rpm where people say they are experiencing this effect...?

There is a big ol' piston slappin' up and down - coupled with the required chain slack and soft cush drive rubbers... (and that nearly everyone complaining about this trait is coming from a multi-cylinder machine/roadbike background)...

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it's a querk of the bike and the circumstances?

xxx

I'm running my bike at the peak torque figure for almost 2 hours a day (a bit over 5200rpm) at 80mph is most of the time traffic allowing.

The interesting thing though is that I don't seem to be getting the problems with the cush drive that some others are having, at least as far as I can tell.

Think I'm going to try running this past my dealer properly as changing the chain only worked for a few hundred miles (it really did work though). I need to get some new tyres fitted anyway as my front has had it.

Interesting, my cush rubbers lasted nearly 11,000 miles, and much of that was constant travel rather than stop start riding.

Off topic, but I found one of the rubbers yesterday, and it's regained it's solidity !!! not even going to think about that one! :missing:

Depending on the brand (and type), a new chain can certainly stretch as it beds-in during the first few hundred miles - especially if you didn't change the sprockets at the same time?

I'd be interested to hear what your dealer says, but one way to check might be to get the bike on a dyno and look at the graph, see how smooth it is?

xxx

It's a DID X-ring chain. Rear sprocket seems hardly worn to me. Only had a small adjustment so far (one turn on the spanner) but only done 1k miles on it so far. Using a LOT more scotoil though.. (three fillups so far, plus spray lubed it 3 times or so)

I did see from an earlier post that your bike has done 9000 miles already though? I'd imagine that is going to have significant wear on the sprockets, even with a scotoiler fitted?

I'm not trying to contradict you, only point out that putting a new chain on 9000 mile sprockets is not going to be the same as a new chain on new sprockets - it may have accellerated that intial break-in, and could continue to do so as they are essentially mismatched?

Coupled with 9000 mile old cush rubbers, well...

I know when I fitted an new chain and sprockets at around 11,000 miles with the (already worn) original cush rubbers, it ate up the new chain and sprockets within 7000 more miles... it got so bad I was adjusting the chain every day...

That said, the second set of replacements have lasted very well over a further 5000 miles (still with those bloody original cush rubbers!), although I did fit a new cush-drive bearing at the same time, which may well have helped...

xxx

11,400 miles, still on the original chain 'n sprocket & Scottoiler - like new!

anyway, shouldn't you be heading back to blighty instead of surfing the wonderweb ??

It's been :sunny: here for days now - if you don't hurry up you're gonna miss it till 2010.....:009:

Hee hee - just about to drop my luggage off at the airport in fact!

I agree scotoilers can/do significantly reduce chain/sprocket wear, what I meant that regardless of the scotoiler, I imagine there would be at least some wear to the sprockets, which would conflict with the brand new chain, hence accellerating the break-in stretch?

Anyway, I've got to go and sit in the lobby and wait for the limo... as they say (obscure Spinal Tap ref. btw.)

xxx

There certainly seems to be a wide range of experiences when it comes to chain & sprocket wear. I used to own a cbf500 which i put 13500 miles on without once adjusting or replacing the drive train, although i do appreciate that it was a twin cylinder 499cc bike putting out 50 bhp..
The Ten is a stonking great single putting out tons of torque so wear & tear on the drive train is to be expected, however, what would explain the different experiences some owners have on this forum? why would one Ten get through its chain & cogs in low miles while Gas_Up_Lets_Go managed to get 11k miles from his chain and sprockets? Any ideas?

Personally I think it could be any number of factors - inconsistency with parts manufacturing/supply (chain, cush rubbers), typical use (lots of stop start and/or off-road vs. long journeys) and quite possibly simply down to owners perception and previous experience?

Kev might have something with his idea about the EFi leaning out on a constant throttle, but personally I don't think the Tenere EFi is that clever? I've also not noticed the same symptoms at anything like the degree some people seem to have - any hunting in the transmission I've experienced is almost certainly directly due to having a sloppy cush-drive and chain...

The fueling itself has been excellent, smooth off idle and during the on-off type throttle use you experience when riding off-road. I'd be surprised if Yamaha had been able to nail that and not make it smooth on constant throttle highway riding?

xxx

ps. I apologise for the word 'highway' - guess I have been over here too long x

I'd 100% agree it is a transmission problem not fueling. My bike was totaly smooth when new, and changing the chain left it smooth as well, for a while. I'm only getting very mild symptoms currently, and as you said my sprockets and cush drive are now 10k miles old (chain 1k) so it could have been the initial wear causing the chain to stretch.

I'll certainly be keeping an eye on it. Only 2k miles until major service and new road tyres (if I can last that long on the siracs) so I'll have a good opportunity to get some comprehensive feedback from my dealer when they do all that in a months time.

Surging
 

After getting my Ten dyno'd the before run the tuner noted the surging and commented that the engine was lean and the surge was due to lack of fuel. So if this is the case for you it wont go away anytime soon unless you get some sort of fuel mapping done. And I suppose air temp/humidity will affect also as that can change the air/fuel mix too.

My bike doesn't surge any more after the dyno and custom mapping.

Only answer is get it custom mapped or put up with it I'm afraid.

As Kev said the O2 sensor and EFI thats leaning out the mixture and giving you the surge. Its not the transmission thats a different type of sloppy feeling.

Almost all of mine was transmission/uneven chair stretch related (caused by all my winter riding it seems).

As for fixing a lean mixture would not increacing the idle speed a smidgen also help here as I believe it increaces fueling across the board?

It's only a problem at constant speed/throttle anyway, I've never had any problems when accelerating. Decelerating problems were chain snatch related.

Exactly, that is the bike running lean.

Adjusting idle speed will only adjust idle speed it will not change fuelling through rev range.

I just like other Ten owners thought my bike ran smooth, although I did notice the surge. But its only after I got it mapped I noticed how much better it has become. I guess its difficult to convince someone that thinks their bike is running very smooth that maybe the fuelling isnt as good as it could be.

There's always room for improvement. Often the question is 'is it adaquate' however?

I'd like to get mine done oneday, just not too many other things competing for my money!

Believe me I get your point, my pocket is still hurting!

On a lighter note, you lot want to experience a 172HP 996S and then complain about surging........:laughing7:
Rolling on and off the throttle it was like a bucking bronko, made for allot of fun trying to negotiate roundabouts in the wet.

Got pulled over by a solo police officer (UK Bike Police) who had been following me down the M4 to london for a few miles, I was doing slightly over the limit and expected him to pull me, anyway just as expected he pulled me over but instead of the usual lecture of going too quick he started to have a go at me about that either I had left my hazard warning lights on and made no attempt to turn them off or I had a wiring fault causing them to keep coming on, I let him go on at me for a few mins before I explained that the bike didn't have a hazard warning light switch and that as far as I was aware the flasher unit wasn't capable of indicating all four indicators, anyway he checked the bike over and then said he would follow me for a while longer and keep a close eye on it, couple of miles further he pulled me over again this time to give me a lecture on why it isn't clever riding a bike that spits flames out the exhausts............. Spoil sport. Looked cool at night though.

So I think it's possible that all EFI large cylinder bikes are prone to surging to some degree, in my case it was extreme but then I had a highly tuned engine and ECU to match, fuel economy wasn't a consideration as the bloody thing probably burnt more fuel outside the engine than in, not to mention it ate chains, sprockets and tyres and barely covered 75 miles on tank if I drove it like a granny (No offense to Grannies). If you want to see some pics of the beasty see here -

www.facebook.com/album.php aid=16928&id=671243295&l=3cdc62a900

i have had a few XT's now, the first XTX was bad, jumping and surging all over, it had arrow cans on it. put the standard cans back and smoothed it right out (not fully)
then and 09 XTX, this was sort of fine with surging but not as bad as the 05 one, i put a set of Leo Vince cans on it and it was bad.... surging all over, put the OEM cans back and fine again... the XTZ i now have is standard and smooth, really smooth. as much as power is nice i am thinking standard cans seem to work better. I like the Akro cans from Yamaha and think the cat in them is a good idea as they are designed to run with one....

i maybe way off but i have noticed the surging is worse after a can change.... if it aint broke, dont fix it :-)

If you added a fuelling device with those mods it would have smoothed your bikes out.

Hee hee - I was wondering when Kev would come along and say that x

Certainly running a Power Commander (set up on a dyno) together with my stage 2 airbox lid, DNA filter and the SR single race can has made a huge difference to the way the power is delivered, and has released a useful few more horses too...

The bike is dead smooth, and really pulls from 4000-7000rpm now, in fact it will hit the limiter before you know it! Yet it will still trickle off the throttle for slow speed riding too - it really is excellent!

Of course it has been well documented that the stock Tenere fueling is vastly superior to the older generation XTR/X, but as Kev says, if you are going to start playing around with the air/fuel in and out on any of the XT660s, then the stock ECU really needs some help...

xxx

Hi Kev... That was kinda my point.... you cant just fit a set of cans and hope it will run ok.