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.: XT660.com - The #1 XT660 Resource :. ( https://www.xt660.com/index.php)
-   XT660Z T�n�r� Tech Section ( https://www.xt660.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163)
-   -   Surging...sorry ( https://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=9358)

JMo 12-04-09 22:38
For what it's worth, I would say any 'surging' issues at the speeds you guys are talking about are more likely due to a combination of any or all the following factors: tightspots on the chain, the (relatively) soft rubbers in the cush drive and the general drive chain slack required (as have been stated above)... you might also factor in labouring the engine in too higher gear, as the power pulses from a single have a more marked effect - particularly if you are used to the inherent smoothness of a multi-cylinder machine?

I am constantly impressed with the actually fueling - and the throttle response off-idle particularly in off-road situations where hesitant fueling would be irritating to say the least... and personally I've not noticed any glitches in the fueling on a constant throttle at the riding speeds mentioned above, and would say that any hunting or shunting is due to the final drive transmission, rather than the engine itself?

Or maybe I just got a good one?

xxx

steveD 14-04-09 00:20
Nope JMo not a good one, just a standard XT660Z. I have been mulling this issue over recently and I absolutely agree with you. It is the final drive that needs to be correctly tensioned. I was going to post a thread to ask opinions of 'surging' as to what it actually means and entails. But then I thought better of it. For instance the manual states some 60mm of travel in the chain mid-way along it's length. Now if that is for the standard suspension set up shurely I should be able to put more tension in the chain as I have installed a lowering link. The chain will be at it's tightest when the drive sprocket centre, swing arm centre and rear wheel centre are all in line. I aim to try and arrange this situation and tension the chain so that there is some free play and then see what extent this free play increases to when the bike is released with no weight on it. Does this make sense? I have just done over 550 miles this weekend with no evidence of surging other that the freeplay in my cushdrive and I think too much play in the chain.

Gas_Up_Lets_Go 14-04-09 09:11
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveD (Post 89798)
Nope JMo not a good one, just a standard XT660Z.

Yep. I'd agree with that. I've played around with the ride style and come pretty much to the same conclusion.

I have a XJR1300, and when I jump from that to the Z I have to really think about my style of riding. It normally takes an hour or so to change mindsets before the Z is a nice ride again.

The biggest change is in the corners.

tenyamman 19-04-09 12:23
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveD (Post 89798)
Nope JMo not a good one, just a standard XT660Z. I have been mulling this issue over recently and I absolutely agree with you. It is the final drive that needs to be correctly tensioned. I was going to post a thread to ask opinions of 'surging' as to what it actually means and entails. But then I thought better of it. For instance the manual states some 60mm of travel in the chain mid-way along it's length. Now if that is for the standard suspension set up shurely I should be able to put more tension in the chain as I have installed a lowering link. The chain will be at it's tightest when the drive sprocket centre, swing arm centre and rear wheel centre are all in line. I aim to try and arrange this situation and tension the chain so that there is some free play and then see what extent this free play increases to when the bike is released with no weight on it. Does this make sense? I have just done over 550 miles this weekend with no evidence of surging other that the freeplay in my cushdrive and I think too much play in the chain.
i have also fitted a metal mule lowering link and have a lot of surging when back off the throttle from 80-85 mph to go into a corner. have i too much or too little chain slack then! should i get rid of this c--p chain ? i cant imagine its the cush drive as i only done 770 miles.
any help greatly appreciated as bike feels like a nodding donkey.

deiaccord 20-04-09 09:58
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenyamman (Post 90481)
i have also fitted a metal mule lowering link and have a lot of surging when back off the throttle from 80-85 mph to go into a corner. have i too much or too little chain slack then! should i get rid of this c--p chain ? i cant imagine its the cush drive as i only done 770 miles.
any help greatly appreciated as bike feels like a nodding donkey.
Even with a new chain I've started to get some surging again after 500 miles or so and I only seem to be getting minor benefit when tightening it. It was perfect for the first few hundred miles so I'm getting quite stumped as to what the problem really is? The surging I have now is fairly minor (to what I had before) but still very annoying.

davontour 20-04-09 10:57
surging
 
Well this is interesting, I have been away on the Tenere in Morocco and had done 5500 kms and had experienced no problems whatsoever in every terrain and road condition imaginable, until I rode back on the autoroute through Spain and the as soon as I hit 4000 to 5000 rpm at constant throttle openings I got what I could only call surging as if the engine was hunting, everything went through my mind and I thought it could be bad moroccon fuel;no still the same after refuelling in Spain or maybe a dirty air filter, whick I had checked and found to be fine so all the way to northern spain I felt that any moment it would cut out or get worse, which it didnt but it was most disconcerting. I did have the chain fairly slack so will try to adjust this now and see if it makes any difference, after I have cleaned 2 weeks of moroccon dust and mud off (the khaki never looked so good!!)

deiaccord 20-04-09 11:09
Quote:
Originally Posted by davontour (Post 90572)
Well this is interesting, I have been away on the Tenere in Morocco and had done 5500 kms and had experienced no problems whatsoever in every terrain and road condition imaginable, until I rode back on the autoroute through Spain and the as soon as I hit 4000 to 5000 rpm at constant throttle openings I got what I could only call surging as if the engine was hunting
I would not be too suprised if it was something that only showed on bikes that spend a lot of their time on the motorway (mine almost exclusively) or doing high constant speeds. Why that might be the case I have no idea though (constant high torque from a single knackering the chain perhaps as opposed to varying revs on other roads). I'd certainly be very interested to hear how you get on after you've adjusted your chain to see if it's any better or not.

Maybe I ought to speed up to 100mph and back down to 70 often to try and vary the revs more :sbike::HappyRoll_ANPIUI:

Kev 20-04-09 14:55
It would not surprise me if it is not emission control. The O2 sensor goes into the closed loop circuit at constant throttle openings, I know the XTX 07 ECU leans out at constant throttle openings.:emot-words:

deiaccord 20-04-09 15:53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev (Post 90603)
It would not surprise me if it is not emission control. The O2 sensor goes into the closed loop circuit at constant throttle openings, I know the XTX 07 ECU leans out at constant throttle openings.:emot-words:
What could we do if this was the case Kev.

Also would this not show all the time and (in my case) not be temporarily solved by a new chain?

JMo 20-04-09 16:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by deiaccord (Post 90573)
I would not be too suprised if it was something that only showed on bikes that spend a lot of their time on the motorway (mine almost exclusively) or doing high constant speeds. Why that might be the case I have no idea though (constant high torque from a single knackering the chain perhaps as opposed to varying revs on other roads).
I agree - I don't have the specs in front of me, but I bet peak torque is somewhere between 4000-5000rpm where people say they are experiencing this effect...?

There is a big ol' piston slappin' up and down - coupled with the required chain slack and soft cush drive rubbers... (and that nearly everyone complaining about this trait is coming from a multi-cylinder machine/roadbike background)...

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it's a querk of the bike and the circumstances?

xxx


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