Reflash ECU!
 

Is it just me or has anyone else found these great news !

http://www.ecu-flashing.com/category/yamaha/xt660/

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...65-Ecu-reflash

It seems to be very promising for us with XT660.

Cut from Webiste:

The reflash offer:

New fuel tables

New ignition timing tables

New Rev limiter 8.000 rpm

New fan working temperature 98-94 celcius

Disable deceleration fuel cut for perfect throttle responce

Disable AIS valve no more “popping” from the exhaust

Fixed the know “Surging” issue caused by the O2 routine

The number of the ecu that we can flash is: 5VK-8591A-10

We are looking all ecu for this bike so we can flash all the models

I think that the company needs more ECUs to extract the flash from so if you have any old ones that is not used I suggest you contact him. If we could send him old ECUs maybe we could all benefit fro that.


EDIT 2015-04-27:

I have now posted a recap of the results in the following post : http://www.xt660.com/showpost.php?p=209619&postcount=34

Yes we have seen a few guys that can re-flash the XT's ECU, we had the first one was done back in 2008, we have had a few riders re-flashing their ECU's but the cost was high those days & you still needed to correct the fuel table in the F/L fuel tables to get a custom tune if the motor has been modified or filters & pipes have been fitted, most of the flashing guys only offer a re-flash for a standard bike.

I personally re-flash my own KTM ECU's, I build custom PCV maps on the Dyno then import all the custom tunes into the OEM KTM ECU's so the PCV is no longer needed, I extend the rev limiter, tune off the closed loop, remove the EPC so the ECU does not retard the timing in the first 3 gears & a few other tricks, I have been doing the KTM's for a few years now.

The big improvements that I can see is the fix for fuel cutoff when closing the throttle and the possibility to alter the ignition map. Those options is not avalible using the powercommander.

I have sent one of my spare ECU�s to Spiro, it is the first generation -00 that was on my bike originally (2004). One of the ecu�s that had most problems.

Spiros have now extracted the fuel and ignition map from it and made a discovery.

The Ecu used is the same as used in the Aprilia Strada 650 but it is diffrent regarding the maps.
Yamaha has a 20-30 degrees more ignition advance in the area were the XT has the most surging compared to the Aprilia. He will soon send me some screenshots of the ignition and fuel maps.

This could be the reason why it is so hard to make the XT completly surge free as the Powercommander does not change the ignition timing. If this is one of the reasons.
I understand that it also has to do with the fuel tables, but if the ignition timings is completly off it will be hard or impossible to tune with only fuel.

I know that the powercommander for the Raptor 700 has the ignition module so that you can tune the ignition maps. Why is it diffrent for the Xt660 since it is almost the same engine?

Different manufacture spec I would say

I have now managed to re-flash my own MT-09 OEM ECU using flash tune software, I can import any PCV map & change virtually anything in the OEM ECU.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps1e3026a4.jpg

Here is the ignition maps for the Aprilia and the xt660 for comparison.

The first one is the XT660 ignition map.

http://www.xt660.com/gallery/display...p?imageid=2153

And this is the Aprilia ignition map.

http://www.xt660.com/gallery/display...p?imageid=2154

As you can see the ignition timing on the XT660 is way diffrent on the area were most of us feel the surging. Around 3000 rpm area or the cruising rpm. And on WOT the diffrence is minimal.

There is also a big difference on what RPMs the changes are set. As you can see in the pictures Yamaha and Aprilia has chosen diffrent throttle openings to tune and compensate.

It could be that the yamaha was made for more markets in the world with diffrent demands for the combustion regulations. And because of that had to make changes that will affect the performance.
Aprilia on the other hand has less markets and sold mostly in contries with high quality fuel.

So who has ridden both and can give feedback on the comparison?

As soon as I recive the reflashed ECU I will give an comparison between them. I have two ECU's, one that is beeing reflashed and one that I am using on the bike now. So I will be able to compare them easy.

I bought my bike as a "salvage", the bike had been victim to a theft attempt so the immobilizer antenna was broken.

I then bought a immobilizer disabler wich means I can use any type of ECU on my bike without changing the locks or keys. This makes it easy for me to test diffrent ECU's.

I also have a Powercommander 5 on the bike that I will disable during the testing.

I also have a KEV fuel mod that I can set to zero to disable it during testing, or compare.

The rest of my bike mods consist of disabled AIS, DNA stage 2 (snorkel removed) and original exhast.

I will post the results here later.

Fantastic, looking forward to the outcome.

I've run a K1200 for over a year with a re-flashed ECU by Rexxer it runs really well and no piggy back to fit or set up.

Where you'll find things changing when more folk get into re-flashing you just supply your spec ie exhaust and filter set up and they supply you the correct tune with allsorts of mods like being able to disable the lamba in the map and just leave it connected

When I first enquired about such the quote I had was 'PC's will be dead within 3 years' which at the time with two bikes with PC's I took exception I'm not sure about 3 years but their definitley on slippery slope.

Look forward to seeing the results.

Here is a comparison between the ignition maps from the first generation -00 ECU and the most recent -11 ECU.

As you can see there is major differences between 1333 -> 4333 RPM at throttle position 0 -> 41.3 %

http://www.xt660.com/gallery/display...p?imageid=2155

Great info.

I have received the ECU from Spiros and I will test it as soon as the snow melts here in Sweden.
The spring has begun already and I hope to test the bike within a week or two.

If it works good I see this option as a much more economic alternative compared to a Powercommander. For several reasons:

1. The lambda can be completely turned off, no need to have o2 controller that can fail.

2. Turn of the secondary air system, no need to plug any hose.

3. Get correct ignition table.

4. Fix the complete fuel shutoff when decelerating. No bangs from the exhaust and more smooth transition from closed to acceleration. (Impossible to fix using Powercommander).

5. Possibility to remove immobilizer. (e.g Race applications)

6. Higher revlimit.


I will soon post back my results.

Some of the technical side of what's being discussed here is beyond me....but reading between the lines should I put plans to buy a Power Commander on hold.? What exactly does re-flashing the ECU entail..? Steve

Sounds exactly the same as a Rexxer map

Yes it is like a rexxer map. But the rexxer is not availible for the xt660.

Interesting stuff. Thanks being the test pilot for re-flashing XT ECUs, and for sharing it all with us. :thumbsup:

Have you got any idea of what the total cost for the finished re-flashed ECU will be? Also, do you intend putting the bike on a dyno and doing a comparison between the ECUs? I'd be very interested to find out how the re-flashed unit performs against the stock ECU with Power Commander...

I won't go into the long winded journey How I arrived at a Rexxer map on my K1200 nearly two years ago but already running two bikes fitted with Power Commanders it was an interesting experiment.

The end product is all but identical except there's no expense of a PC and no fitting and no piggy back to go wrong.

Where it gets complicated bikers like dyno maps and yet people have been having turbo diesel cars remapped without a dyno run for years but Rexxer have it down to a fine art you phone a supplier with your model/year/aftermarket mods even down to which filter and aftermarket can.

Rexxer supply a map down the wire and the dealer blows it in end of.

To some extent I also prefer the powercommander, it is possible to tune and map the bike to your specific engine modifications. But if you only are going to make the ordinary modifications e.g exhaust and airbox mods, then a standard compensating fuel map is sufficent for most people.

In my example, I have a open exhaust, stage 2 dna no snorkel. There are several already made maps for this setup.

If I load one of these maps and then later take it to a dyno I will probably see a very small improvment or none. It has already been done.. But if you really want that +1 hp at 4356 rpm then you need to pay up and make a custom tune.

Its like carb tuning kits you tell the seller what setup you have and they select from a list what recommended needle height and jet size you should use.

In my reflashed ECU there is a already made fuel map for a open exhaust and modified air box with stage 2.

Yes but which exhaust having had a pair of Akra's then changed to a MM and then back again you sure as hell won't get away with the same map for both they are a world away from each other.

I test started the bike today with the reflashed ECU. It started well and idles.

I no longer need to have my immobilizer bypass module since the ECU no longer has that protection (This option is off course optional, and if your bike has a working immobilizer system leave the immobilizer function on.)

The reason I have a immobilizer bypass module on the bike is because it has been subject to a theft attempt were the thief broke the ignition lock and immobilizer antenna. Yamaha does not sell the antenna or ignition lock separately and the only option was to either buy a new ecu-kit with all locks and keys and dashboard, very expensive!. The ignition lock I bought from ebay it is the same for Yamaha R1 R6 and several other. It cost only 15$ from china with three keys and also a small lock for the seat.

One great thing for me with this new reflashed ecu is that when I no longer need to have the immobilizer bypass module, I can enter the diag mode on the ecu. That was not possible when using the immobilizer bypass module since it gave an error in the display.
I can now enter the diag mode and calibrate my throttle position sensor among other things.

If you have a XT660 that does not start because of the antenna around the ignition lock is broken, then a reflashed ecu is the absolute best and cheapest option to get it running again.

Oh I forgot, I asked Spiros what price he will take for the service to reflash the ecu and he said that if more than 25 people from the xt forum will ask for the service the price will be 200� otherwise 250�.

He will then flash the ecu with any Powercommander fuel map that you wish, fix the ignition table, raise revlimit or disable the O2 controller etc etc...

Please notice that I am not in any way in business with Spiros and do not get any commission or try to sell his services.

Please if you have any questions regarding his services please contact him instead of me.

I only test this one ecu on my bike and write about it to share with other.

Thanks for finding that out. A reflash seems relatively cheap, not far off half the price or a new PCV. Good value if you think about the ignition and other options that are available, but I guess not so if you do any further mods as you'll need to send it away for another reflash. But then again, 200� is about what it costs me for a dyno session.

Looking forward to the snow melting... ;)

Another option would be to make all the mods to the engine that you want, then tune it with a powercommander on a bench. Then you will have a map for your bike with your mods and flash the ECU with that specific map.
After that you could sell the powercommander...

Where have you read/seen mentioned/stated that I have ever had a O2 controller fail over the past 5 years that I have been making them?????

These days I reflash all my own OEM ECU's & have been doing them for a few years now, the problems with importing a PCV Power Commander map is it only changes the F trim tables TPS/RPM fuel trims, the L trim tables intake manifold pressure/RPM are not altered/adjusted with a PCV import. The problem shows it's head when the ECU switches between the F/L trim tables according to TPS position values & engine load.

Also turning off the O2 sensor no longer allows for altitude retuning, as part of the A/F ratio equation for the L trim tables is calculated from the O2 sensor voltage, so your tune will be static at different altitudes. I have done extensive data logging with the KTM's with my POD-300 seeing what the difference is with the O2 sensor closed loop circuit turned off & have just done similar work to my MT-09.

I find the flash tools very handy when changing throttle fly by wire mapping, fan control times & a few other things, but I still remap all my bikes on the Dyno with Tune link software using a PCV for custom mapping.

What are you correcting as in A/F ratio trim tables with the reflash, F & L trim tables or just the F trims, are all the re-flashes based off a Dyno tune how are you confirming all the A/F ratios with the reflash tune & what fuels types & grades are you basing your tunes off?

I have never neither said that a O2 controller has failed, but it can, as well as a PCV or the ECU itself.

I have sold more the than a 1000 X O2 controller & have never had one fail.

I have got an answer to your question Kev, about the fuel tables in the ECU, please note that I am just trying to forward what I have been explained.

First F/L is only names used by Tuneecu software and not commonly used in the ECU.

Ecu on bikes is a hybrid fuel system that works with speed density (fuel map calculate from a 3d table based on RPM vs MAP sensor) and jumps to Alpha N (fuel map calculate from a 3d table based on RPM Vs TPS sensor).

This is happening because with small throttle openings it is more accurate and correct to work with the MAP signal in order to generate correct AFR numbers and after one point when it reach the atmospheric pressure it jumps to more accurate TPS based maps. With that method you have very good control of fuel in any situation.
The jump from SD to AN is not immediately, they have smooth factor points and is happening in most situations from 10% to max 25% throttle openings but this is not the same in all engines, some is lower and some is higher, it depends on many things. The newer ecu's is not always 100% alpha N but use a small amount of speed density even in wot conditions.

Now in order to accurately apply the power commander map I (Spiros) have built a custom software that apply the values in the fuel map, the problem with pcIII is that is only tps based so I cannot be accurate 100% in speed density maps but from the experience that I have and also the ability to know the smooth factors I apply in most cases 85% correct.
If you have PCV that can work hybrid and based on map sensor (many guys do that) and you provide me the map it will be 100% accurate apply to the oem map.

The O2 sensor is not compensate based on altitude for this exist the Barometric sensor to do that and for ecu that doesn't have barometric sensor it is calculated from the MAP sensor with a very clever logic that I will not analyze now. So O2 is for environmental pollution and EPA compliant and for sure this hurts performance and driveability.

Last even in a dyno it is not an easy job to tune a bike, experience-high sophisticated data logger with a high speed is needed, road datalog is necessary also.
It depends on were you use your bike, road bikes in most cases doesn't need to spend more than a week to tune, for race use is a different story.

Each country have different fuel quality so i cannot provide anything more than what we have here, from experience US tunes is a little on the rich side compared to Europe tunes because from the ethanol content that they use.

Finally! First test ride today.

Test setup: Reflashed ecu, powercommander 5 with a zero map.

The absolute biggest diiference is in the cruising with low throttle openings. Like when going 50 km/h in town.
Before on the original ecu, when the engine went from load to low or little load to engine breaking, it was jerking and stuttering. Now it has a smooth transition between the three diffrent load conditions. Almost like a cruiser bike....

When going full throttle and hard accelerating, my butt dyno feels no difference. It does how ever feel more easy revving, I guess it has to do with the changed ignition map and the changes in advance.


I also put a new Creptus exhaust on the bike ( see thread in exhast section ) and I now have some serious exhaust popping on decel. And yes I have blanked of the AIS, first I will check if there are any leaks at the exhaust ports.
If I dont find any leaks I will add fuel on the powercommander on 0 throttle position above 1500 rpm. Since the original ecu has a complete shutoff in that section I will now be able to add fuel there on my reflashed ecu.
I will test and report back, I hate decel popping and it is annoying when riding the bike in towns. Some like it, some dont...

Nice report what ECU are you running on your bike, 10, 11?

It is actually the first generation -00 with the worst problems. I also have the -01 version that I change between to evaluate the differences.

So now I have done some extensive testing with the bike and have come to some conclusions regarding the reflash and also some tuning.
First of all lets recap of what has been done to my bike.

The bike has a 2 into 1 Creptus exhaust system, Completely removed AIS with the hole between the headers blanked of using the OTR blanking plate. Stage 2 DNA filter, and snorkel removed from airbox, also drilled some holes in the cavity where the snokel was, as the hole from the snorkel is smaller than the filter ( as of KEVS instructions.).

The resonance chamber in the intake removed and plugged. Engine air breather rerouted from the airbox to external filter.
I have two different ECU�s one 5VK-8591A-00 that has been reflashed with the following modifications: Revlimit raised to 7850 rpm, New ignition table ( same as Aprilia Pegaso), and most important the fuel cutoff when deceleration is turned off so I now can adjust fuel in the 0% throttle position.
This ECU also has the following powercommander fuel map flashed in memory:

Kev_fuel_map.djm
Yamaha XT660X 01 ECU
S/Steel Carbon Can Co Cans with baffles in
DNA stage 1 & 2 filters
Modified Air Box with Air Snorkel removed
Kev current map 18/04/07

And also one original ECU 5VK-8591A-01 to compare with.
To be able to switch between the ECU�s I use a Immobilizer bypass module on the original ECU and the reflashed ECU has the immobilizer turned off.
When using the original non flashed ECU I use a Powercommander V with the same fuel map as stated above. And when using the Reflashed ECU I use a zero map altered only in the 0% throttle position by adding 20% fuel in that range.

Ok so what are the differences between the two ECU�s��
First of all when using the original ECU I cannot compensate for deccel popping. It bangs loud when decelerating. Regardless of the settings in the Powercommander. I hate this, especially when riding in city traffic.
The other difference is the surging on low rpm, 2000-3500. I cannot fix this area when using the original ECU, I guess it has to do with the ignition table as stated by Spiros.

On the reflashed ECU the cruising is fixed, no surging, and I can completely remove the deccel popping by adding 20% fuel in the Powercommander on the 0% throttle position. This also takes away the annoying behavior when going from engine braking back to throttle. No hesitation and stalling.
The bike now drives like a charm and the drivability in the low RPM range is perfect.

I am going to mail Spiros about the changes I have made on the fuel table regarding the 0% throttle position so that this can be added to his reflash as default.

This will make the make the Powercommander obsolete on my bike as it will no longer be needed. I can then only use the reflashed ECU and get a great running bike.

Very good thread!!!
I work for ignition map for power commander 5, so I wand to be sure before...
The Ignition table for XT660X after 2007 are like this ?

http://loganrythmix.free.fr/Picture/...itionTable.jpg

Well, If my last table are right, I translate correction to the Power Commander V ignition table like this :

http://loganrythmix.free.fr/Picture/...ableXT660X.jpg


Is it correct??

Kev and guys here I need help. I have think to put my bike on dyno. I have now fuel mod, o2 mod from kev, dna stage 1,2, snorkel removed. Now my question is for ECU reflash I have I guy who works with bikes and doing dyno and also reflash.

Can I do this- "Disable O2 sensor and compensation maps" or is better to do tuning with o2 mod from kev? Didn't think to put PC on it. Just to reflash original fuel map modified.

Holy crap!!!
I live next to Spiros Samios!!!!!
He is doing the service in my car and he has never ever spoke to me about remapping!!!
Ο μαπας!!!