xt660 engine reliability concerns
 

After viewing threads about engine problems or even failure I have some doubts about reliability of this bike. I never heard so far about other motorcycle engine fatal problems e.g. honda, triumph etc. My question is were these cases only some specific year model related problems and it is now fixed or it is rather random?

I placed an order on new xt660z and have cold feet to be honest...

Mine was 2009 with 12000 miles when gearbox fall apart. Some offroad riding and some light jumps though.

It was ridden this way ( Mine is blue one - its last action - about two weeks after this it was death):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c2c...qEhM9Qy091yaQA

And onboard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIdz_QMbLwU

I would not say bike was too much abused.

Scary stories
 

If you want to find scary stories of bike problems, come to a forum! But remember, all bikes have issues and for everyone who comes to a forum to post on an issue, there will be hundreds (maybe even thousands) that never even visit a forum. Basically, forums can give you a distorted view of problems since that is where they tend to get reported.

If you looked at the UKGSER forum you'd never buy a BMW. But thousands have and have been happy. But the forum makes it look like you are guaranteed a life of pain and sorrow.

If you take that view and then review this forum what you'll soon see is that XT ownership appears to be a pretty reliable and hassle free experience. Of course there are the odd problems. I've never seen a bike or car forum where that's not the case.

I'd be sleeping easy if I were you. Chances are you have nothing at all to worry about.

12k miles that freaking low mileage for any engine/clutch problem not to mention failure...

Nice videos BTW, indeed you din't abuse it in any way.

yeah, but like 50/50 or more chances? LOL

Of course you're right with forums opinions but show me any adventure bmw, ktm, suzuki, honda, triumph threads with engine failure at that kinda mileage
because I couldn't find it. Other problems yes, like BMW broken forks etc.

My 2010 Tenere has just turned 42,000 miles, it's been heavily abused off road, been to Nordkapp in 2012, (5000 mile trip taking in most of Scandinavia), loaded with camping gear. Last year I rode from Ireland to Italy with two other XT660Zs and an XT660R and completed the Stella Alpina off road event, well over 9000 feet in altitude. All four bikes performed faultlessly and 3 of them had over 30,000 miles on the clock. Engine and gearbox still trouble free. Only problems have been a dry head bearing which was replaced by Yamaha and a derailed chain that caused damage to the rear suspension arm - this could have been prevented by myself being more diligent with adjusting the chain. With doing so much off road work I tend to run with the chain a bit looser than Yamaha recommend. A chain guide has since been fitted. I fastidiously change oil and filters at the recommended mileage and often do an extra oil change between the recommended ones. My experience of 660s is that they are extremely reliable and rugged engines. Kev's fuel mod and O2 mod really help to get the best out of them too.

I wouldn't worry too much, especially if you're buying new.

:-)

I done a lot of research into the reliability before buying mine, for a single cylinder engine they are one of the most reliable out there.
I also change my oil more frequent than recommended.

+1 We have 9635 members here (at last count) and just a handful of cases of 3rd gear failure and two or three iffy main bearings, so let's say ten cases of engine failure for argument's sake. Now that equates to somewhere around 0.09%! (Alright, I know not all members have owned/do own an XT, but most do, or have done and it gives a reasonable illustration of pifflingly small the issue really is in numbers.)

Now if you had owned the bike from new, then I guess you could say this with some authority, but you bought it at 3 years old if I recall? So how can you be sure? You might service it fastidiously now, but anything could have happened before, regardless of "service history" too. The other recent 3rd gear failure (Chenko's) also relates to a previously owned bike.

I'm not really trying to suggest or infer anything other than it is impossible to be objective about engine/gearbox failures with a pre-owned motorcycle. Yes failures might be down to manufacturing/assembly faults, but they could be just as likely, if not more so, be down to a clumsy-shifting previous owner...

I have just read here
this thread

I don't know...you guys call that engine bullet proof???
Actually it looks like the hole from the bullet...

All I know if I read these threads a year ago. I would have chosen a ktm.

Yes that one had issues....

I tell yer what fined another 11 see if yer can get to a even dozen....

This engine has been around for quite a while now, fitted to various brands and models.

As far as I know, the biggest km haul here is enough to max out the odo ie> 200,000km. I know that engine had some issues along the way, but I don't think the gearbox was one of them.

The problem is too much communication! Everyone knows the instant someone has a problem. And those who haven't had a problem sympathise. And we hope it doesn't happen to us or anyone else. Statistically, it probably won't.

But motorbikes are man-made, and thus are fallible. I know this for a fact. I will not buy another BMW:076:. My problem, not anyone else's.

Well I have owned about 20 bikes over the years and 3 XT660s. Mine were all the X model and I still have my 2011 version, all bought new and serviced at Alf England (great support). I have had zero problems with the 3 bikes and the latest one is now over 28,000 kms. Forget the horror stories, these bikes are bulletproof.

Cos you think that KTMs are reliable???????? Blimey.

I think he means exactly what i think - if you got a bike that can potentially fail and you read some scary stories about this... you better off with the bike that is more powerful, has better suspension, is lighter, and better in nearly every aspect. Yes - the rumors are they are not reliable, but to me Yamaha isn't either. This is why i decided to go for 990 ADV. If it will go wrong at least i know why :-D

I have just canceled my order and not sure which way to go now but I'm rather positive I don't want a thumper anymore...

My last bike was twenty years old and hammered all it's life. And likewise so were my other bikes before , with zero wear related problems. Unfortunately, I've just come to the realisation after one year of ownership that with the tenere that is not gonna happen. Perhaps true of Any thumper. But if they are all gonna fall to bits then I would have preferred the ktm for its weight and specs. I thought I did my research but I hold my hand up, didn't do it well enough. What seems now to be common knowledge that thumpers are not designed for a long life. Is not publicised very well.
As far as my tenere goes. I think it the best designed ride I've had the pleasure to ride. I can't describe it really. It feels like how cruisers should feel but it's high and takes a good bashing off road. It's not got that wanna go faster inspiring feel like sports bike. It's totally surreal.

As far as ktm go, you go on their forums and suggest they are unreliable you will immediately get the same backlash as if it were here. And yes the points bout forums predominantly being places were people are looking for fixes and help is equally valid in their case too.
I think the focus should not be about defending the model or maker but rather how best to avoid these problems and the best way to fix them if they occur.
I've read a guys blog in an Australian forum who has been through a few teneres with engines issues. He's on his third. More than bad luck. Bearing failures being the cause.
Unfortunately I'm not mechanically minded but would love to hear kevs opinion about this. Not about the statistics but what can we expect from these engines in terms of lifespan, prevention and cure.

Marques, you can hammer your Tenere. Give it heaps. But:
1. Warm it up first, and
2. Don't ever make the engine slog. It WILL die. Imo...

Now I'm really worried. What do u mean by slog

when I'm afraid about the engine reliability, I read this thread:

http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=19698

Afterwards I can sleep like a Baby


Ciao
Solitario

If it's any consolation I just completed a 9 day adventure ride with 4 ktm690's a drz400 a klr600 and my xtz660. Long story short, every day at least one bike had mechanical issues. The only bike which didn't break down was my tenere. In fact I towed one of the 690's for 20kms in bush roads. Would have been a great photo. Go the Yummiest!!!!

Flippin auto correct, that should've read.....Go the Yammies!!!!

Ah sorry - I mean load the engine heavily in (especially) 3rd, 4th and 5th gears at low revs. This is, in my opinion, the main reason these engines wreck bearings and gearboxes. Most modern big singles won't cope long-term if their owners force them to do this, which means using the gearbox to keep the revs up as often as possible. >3500rpm is reasonable, 4000 in 5th. Obviously you can run any revs you want if the engine is lightly loaded.

So mate, rev it and be happy! I think our big singles are the least flexible engines around if we want them to last, but I don't care. I try to ride mine accordingly and hope it will be ok.

I absolutely thrashed my last Tenere (96 model) for 43,000km and it ran like a new one when I sold it. I haven't been as hard on this one because Australian coppers are now crazed about speed limits :tongue3: Except in the Northern Territory which has some unlimited roads and 130km/h elsewhere out of towns. Everywhere else is getting dismal because the authorities are running out of money, so the speed limits are more and more rigorously enforced :soapbox:

Ahhh. Now that's bad news. Mr smart pants me has only been scraping the pennies for the last 30000km. Loads of stress in high gears at very low revs.

This is so true...
The last thing the XT likes is low revs in a to higher gear...
" Suzuki DR650 is the same & they blow 3rd gear apart real fast"
I have found lowering the gearing to 14/48 sprokets that goes along way to cureing the prob..and is only 500rpm more at 100kph in 5 gear.....
I feel my TTR250 is a far more flexable motor in that it dosn't complain
nearly as much if yer in the wrong gear/wrong revs...

Almost reached the 100.000km mark, no problems so far.....engine still not opened, no oil consumption, still runnin' smooth and strong, good fuel consumption(1lt to 26km's on backroads, 1lt to 20km's on highways). Strong and reliable engines, these XT's!

I think with Tenere is like with buying Chinese product... if you lucky it will be as good as a decent brand overpaid product, but if you unlucky enough you will end up like me... And in reply to those lessons of riding big singles - i'm riding bikes for 21 years now, and amongst my bikes i had some of them : DR600, DR650, XT600, DRZ400, F650GS Dakar, and Tenere... Some of them for more then 3 years. None of them had such bad engine failure as Tenere despite being even over 10 years old.
Modern products are struggling for quality and reliability from simple reasons - constant reductions of production costs. Programs run in factories like CIP (continuous improvement process), VPS (value added production system) and similar are basically concentrating on earning more money for the company and spending less. Many times cheaper parts are fitted because of this. They won't fail every time, but will have higher fail rate... I just was unlucky enough to have a bike falling in this fail rate percentage. I wont present you with bar chart or pie chart showing fail rates, but one thing i know - 5 years old bike with 12000 miles on the clock shouldn't blow in to pieces doesn't matter how low revs you fancy riding. And i wasn't riding my bike with low revs, simply because to make this bike go you need to twist your wrist, lets face the true :-)
I wouldn't recommend Tenere to anybody now. Stories about 100 000 kilometers doesn't mean much for me when my bike is in bits in my garage.

There is such clever saying in my country - Fed person will never understand a hungry one. :-)

Fwiw, I think the gearing alteration would go a long way towards helping engine reliability. Also, it's true the 250 4-strokes don't seem to hammer their gearboxes, probably because they are all short (relatively) stroke engines, revving much harder than the bigger motors for a given speed, and their gears might be more lightly loaded anyway.

Bartosz, no doubt you're right. But I am wondering if perhaps your selector arm stopper bearing failed and caused the big mess? This really does seem to be an issue, and should not happen. Especially at your low mileage.

While what you have written is true, I still think that mainly this is a good engine. The selector stopper bearing is obviously something to watch for.

Also, it's possible for anyone to wreck anything. XR400s have a reputation for bullet-proof reliability here in Australia. A friend of mine has >100,000km on his bottom end, another has >60,000km without even a camchain being replaced, yet I have see one fool ruin his engine in about 8000km through brutal abuse. This is not a reflection on you at all, but maybe the previous owner of your bike.

Of course this doesn't help you one bit. I'm just trying put things in perspective. This fed person does understand a hungry one - I had a Ducati dissolve in about 10,000km, and a BMW R100GS which was so bad that the selling dealer wouldn't take it back for any money. Been there, mate, and didn't like it any more than you do now.

That's the thing.. if my bike condition can suggest some abuse by previous owner i wouldn't be surprised, but my bike when i bought was in pristine condition, and looks like very rarely was offroad (i can recognize some offroad going bikes straight away :-)) On the road - i'm not sure if you can be so clumsy in gear change to cause such damage?? I would be surprise.
Anyway - engine is out, and i will be driving back to Poland on Thursday, with possibility of start working on engine around Saturday. We will see what is occurring there :-)
Maybe i should refrain from commenting more on this topic, as i think wounds are still fresh and hurts even more when I'm digging in them... it was a perfect bike for me until it happened, so I'm a bit bitter now LoL :-)

I rode a XT660R rental bike for 4 days during my winter holyday in the Canary Islands for 6 odd years ago. It had 96.000miles on the odometer, and still rode / sounded like a champ - so there was no doubt in my mind that my next bike would be an XT660 of some sorts.
My 2012 XTX will last for many years to come - and for the first 5 years Yamaha will take care of whatever happens to it. (warranty.. :) )

Nomatter what bike you do a forum search on, you end up with negative feedback and you end up being afraid of mechanical failure on all of them.

Yes fair enough, too. I don't blame you at all. All I can say is that I hope you have better luck with your new bike.

Cheers mate.