XTZ uncomfortable engine heat
 

Hello viewers, I recently purchased a 2012 Tenere. Most of the negative issues with the bike can be sorted or lived with but I'm having trouble coming to terms with the heat coming from the engine whether stationary or blasting down the highway. I've done Kevs suggestion of wrapping the headers with exhaust wrap which helped a little.
The heat is so hot the inside of both legs gets too hot and you have to move your legs very wide to cool them down.
I've done the 02 and fuel mod and air filter stage 1 & 2 but no change.
Something odd is the coolant in the radiator is green but the overflow bottle coolant is pink....hmmm?
I tested the thermo fan by going direct to power and it works. Never have heard it come on while the bikes running though. Also the temperature light has never come on. Maybe I should get a temp gauge to see exactly where it runs.
Assuming these bikes have a thermostat I guess that should be checked next.
Would love some feedback as to how your Z's run. Admittedly I live in a fairly warm climate in Australia but I also know this is not normal.
Cheers
Brad:sweat:

XTZ uncomfortable engine heat
 

Odd that the coolant is a different colour in the expansion tank? I'd guess that someone has drained the coolant from the motor/rad and refilled it with a green brand, but didn't tip out the old pink coolant from the expansion tank. The expansion tank won't drain via the water pump's drain bolt, it has to be pumped or tipped out.

Even if that's the case, you'd expect (as the coolant expands and contracts into and out of the expansion tank) the two colours to get mixed up over time?

You haven't got a kink/blockage in the hose that connects the rad to the expansion tank?

I have a Trailtech TTO temperature gauge fitted, ( http://www.trailtechproducts.co.uk/a...mperature.html 19mm ID) mainly because I have a mistrust of warning lights. Generally when they come on it's too late; you've overheated. A temp gauge let's you know what going on in real time and gives advanced warning if trouble. Plus you can see when the thermostat opens and closes, as well as the exact temperature the fan cuts in on the move.

Where is that sensor attached?

It's just cut into the top radiator hose on the left hand side behind the fan.

I was going to ask same question, where did you plug it in ?

Do yo have any photos - might be worth investing in ?

Did you have to drain the system or is it doable to install it with fluid in (just top it up if necessary)

What dia is 'our' radiator pipe ??

XTZ uncomfortable engine heat
 

Sorry no photos, but it's a doddle to fit; no need to drain all the coolant or remove the tank.

The unit itself is battery powered (mine's been running for three years now and still going strong), so wiring is easy. There's only one from the sensor in the hose to the display.

You only need to draw off about 250ml of coolant through the rad cap to get the top hose clear. Remove left hand grey tank cover to expose the hose (there's plenty of room to work with and a nice straight length of hose). Cut the hose, removing about 25mm in the process to accommodate the length of the sensor adapter. Clamp the adapter in place with two hose clips (supplied). Top up the missing coolant. Feed the wire through to dash area and stick the display on with the 3M pad provided. And that's it!

FYI - Internal diameter of the top hose is 19mm.

Cheers mate, as usual your advice is very helpful.

Is it connected directly to the battery and all the time 'on' ?

It has it's own internal battery and yes it's always on and displaying the temperature.

XTZ uncomfortable engine heat
 

Which parameter is better to use to assess the general engine temperature, the oil or the coolant, as you can buy a thermometer for the oil? And once installed does it have an alarm or what is a safe top temp to be running at? Would that temp be the same for the oil?

The coolant temperature is the better indicator of general engine temperature as the coolant temperature changes and fluctuates more rapidly in response to changing engines operating conditions. Oil takes longer to warm up and cool down, so although useful, oil temperature is a less accurate real time measure of overall engine temperature.

Generally speaking the ideal operating temperature of engine oil should be 10-15C above that of the normal coolant operating temperature. Most water-cooled engine's run coolant temperatures around the 80-90C mark, so you'd expect a good operating temperature for the oil to be around the 95-105C mark. The oil temperature needs to be around or slightly above the boiling point of water to ensure that acidic condensates from combustion are burnt off and evaporated.

FYI - The XT's thermostat is fully open at 85C, so roughly speaking, you'd expect the average oil temperature at that point to be around the 100C mark in normal operation (although I have to confess I've never measured it). But bear in mind, oil (unlike coolant) temperature varies greatly across the engine when its at full working temperature; it can be as high as 160C at the oil control ring, but as low as maybe 50/60C in the oil tank and all temperatures in between at the sump, gearbox, clutch, top end, crank shaft and oil pump.

So if the coolant is above 90 degrees then the engine is overheating and needs to be rested. The reason why I so interested is my clutch went last year and I am sure I didn't over use it but the conditions were hard. Very hot and incredibly humid as well as the worst terrain as one could imagine. I am sure it was heat related but the warming light was off

XTZ uncomfortable engine heat
 

No. At 20psi pressure water boils at about 112C, so temperatures between 95 and 102 would be classed as "hot", but acceptable for short periods, such as in stationary traffic etc. On the move the coolant temperature will normally be around the 85 to 90 mark (well mine is anyway); a little less in the winter and a touch higher in the summer.

The fan cuts in at 102C and switches off at 95C ( if I remember rightly). The warning light comes on at 110C AFAIK, which is a bit late and why a temp gauge is a handy early warning tool.

So around 102c is the upper limit of safe. Does the thermometer come with an alarm which is configurable?

I know an engine watchdog works best on my van (alloy head and pressurised cooling). An audible or visual warning and off calibrated engine temperature (bolt on) without needing to cut a hose. Anyhow.. I was searching for something similar designed bike-size. More for preventing damage than testing for problems.

No. But there are other brands that do. Have a look at what KOSO offer - they do some good waterproof gauges.

http://digitalspeedos.co.uk/

Bit more money than the Trailtech and need hard wiring for 12v supply.

You've convinced me too, just ordered the gauge off eBay ($40AU). Also have an RR oil temp guage. Ta for the info :)

Hey Pleiades, I took your advice and purchased a TTO temp gauge, nice compact unit, simple mount, cheers for that.

So upon installing and testing out, this is my results...
Initial warm up after several minutes idling....reached 109 degrees C before thermo fan cut in....let it cool down.

Now for the on road test(on a 27deg C day)...cruising between 70 and 130 kph temp held steady around 70-72. Slowing down to 50- 60kph temp rose to mid 70's to low 80's. Down hill deceleration 80-100kph temp down to high 60's.

No matter what temp the gauge read the heat coming from the engine was significant. The warmer the temp on the gauge the hotter on my legs.

At least I can rest easy that the motor isn't running too hot. But why the heat???

My figures seem to differ in every way to yours Pleiades. Could my thermostat be cactus??? Should I test that next??? What do you suggest?

That is a bit on the hot side for the fan to be cutting in?

Your results are going to differ as the ambient temperatures are quite different in your part of the world. Also it is entirely plausible that your domestic market XTs have different thermostats and coolant/water concentrations to suit your climate, which are not the same as the UK models and will alter readings.

The only way to check the cooling system is doing what it should is to plug the bike into a diagnostic tool and check the coolant temperature that the ECU is reading is within tolerance and how it compares that displayed on the TTO.

Thanks Pleiades for your response. I was hoping to sort this out without the aid of a shop but will succumb if I run out of alternatives.

Last plead to all you Tenere owners...some feedback on whether you experience excessive heat from your engine or not would be greatly appreciated.

Am thinking I should find a Tenere for sale somewhere and take it for a test ride as a comparison.

Thanks cya

Hiya, I ride my XT660X all year round here in Italy where we get fairly high summer temperatures and I have never felt excessive heat from my engine even in city traffic riding. I have also never heard the fan cut in. So your case sounds very strange.

You really need to remove the sensor in order to check it with a multimeter to get any degree of accuracy or useful data. Using a guesstimate of cold/hot engine and comparing the readings with a top hose temperature reading just isn't going to be accurate enough. The sensor resistance needs to be checked/compared with temperature at/or in very close proximity to it. The temp on any top hose reading gauge will lag considerably from that of the actual engine temp sensor; it will also be affected by operation of the thermostat, whereas the engine temp sensor reads before the thermostat and reacts quickly to cylinder head temperature.

Thanks cya

Thanks cya

XTZ uncomfortable engine heat
 

You are (in your own words) making the assumption that the temperature gauge fitted is correct and the gauge in question is fitted to, and measuring the temperature in, the top hose.

My point is that, although you may well get 140ish ohms when the fan cuts in, you have no idea what the actual temperature is at the sensor in order to make a comparison. Yes the fitted gauge may say 109, but the temperature could be, and is highly likely to be, much higher in the water jacket itself? For example the sensor might be sending a reading of 140 ohms to the ECU so the fan is switched on, but you don't know whether it is the right temperature. In other words, the range of resistances produced by the sensor may well be within spec on the multimeter, but you won't be able to confirm whether the correct temperature range corresponds to those resistances when relying on the fitted gauge in the top hose. The crucial thing to test is whether or not you're getting the correct resistance at the correct temperature. Just checking the resistance is not enough to ascertain wether the sensor is good or bad in itself, unless you can cross-reference it with temperature.

As you say, the only reference temperature you can be 100% sure of is the ambient. The rest is based on assumption.

Thanks cya

I know, but to be fair you didn't mention that before! Originally you only mentioned taking out the thermostat to test it with a thermometer...

Not the sensor, which you originally implied was best to test in situ (no mention of testing it against a thermometer?)

Man this is hard work! :eusa_wall:

All I originally said is "you'll need to take the sensor out to test it", which indeed you will have to do to measure the resistance against temperature with a glass bulb thermometer as you quite correctly say in your last post. You don't need the diagnostic tool to do this - I never said you did for this. All I said you'd need a diagnostic tool for was to "check the coolant temperature that the ECU is reading".

Anyway, in a nut shell, I think we have finally established/agreed in a roundabout way that, to test the engine coolant temperature sensor on an XT you need to:

1) Remove it
2) Heat it up in water with a glass bulb thermometer
3) Measure the resistance against temperature

Mate you are seriously insecure about your abilities and so not worth the effort. What a great forum but not worth the effort trying to assist when only ONE opinion is allowed. For the record no.. Only a retard would feel they need to remove the sensor to get an adequate reading of its serviceability, which you never thought to allude to till I explained it to you.
All the best.

Pleiades was only trying to help you based on the facts he was given, I think a little cool it down period (no pun intended) would do wonders to this discussion if we all walk away for a day or two and come back to it with refreshed mind.

May I remind all forum users that we provide this platform not to measure each other's "bits" but to friendly participate in discussion to try and help with our experience, we welcome those of you who have more experience then others to share those with the people who has had less experience. So it's a exchange of valuable info that we pass one another.


Please never get irate or offended in the process of these discussion taking place, realize that often either one of you has not made themselves clear to the rest or given contrasting info.

The Latins got it right when they said: "Errare (Errasse) humanum est, sed in errare (errore) perseverare diabolicum.", attributed to Seneca. which translates to: "To err is human, but to persist in error (out of pride) is diabolical."

Take a few minutes to reflect and then come back in a few days times and see if you can see the argument from a different constructive approach.

Thanks in advance for accepting my suggestion and if you are still pi$$ed and want to leave the forum of remove your profile I can do that, but... who will lose then?

For Brad, or anyone else wanting to test their coolant temperature sensor, here is the correct procedure to follow, taken from the official Yamaha Service Manual:

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps605e5ad4.jpg

Thanks Macca and thanks Pleiades for your info, appreciate you both willing to assist me in my quest to ride comfortably. Will do some resistance testing, maybe a ride comparo and will keep you posted, cheers, Brad

For the benefit of anyone who has fitted (or is intending to fit) a temperature gauge I did two tests this weekend on the XTZ to draw up a comparison table between the temperatures read on the gauge and those read from the ECT sensor by the ECU to give some sort of idea as to the accuracy of a temperature gauge.

The bike was left to idle until the fan cut in and then out again and the temperatures were read at intervals on the diagnostic tool and the gauge and elapsed time recorded.

The first test shows what happens with AIS connected and functioning normally, the second with the AIS blocked.

The first noticeable thing is that the temperature gauge reads fractionally lower than the ECU does up until the point at which the thermostat opens, there after is reads slightly higher, which is kind of what you'd expect as the gauge sender is after the ECT sensor in the cooling circuit. The biggest margin of difference is detected at the top end of the temperature range.

The second point of note is that when the AIS is disconnected the bike takes longer to warm up at idle up to about 60C, at which point the two test's results are similar. With the AIS blocked it takes almost a minute longer to reach 60C.

The fan in both tests took just over a minute to bring the temperature down the level where it cuts out.

Obviously there are a number of factors which would vary from one bike to another (mods, coolant mix, fuel, climate, ambient temperature etc.), but the results should be fairly representative of how the cooling system behaves on an XT. In fact, when Schnidely tested his bike, he got exactly the same results on the gauge for the fan cut in/cut out temperatures, and only fractionally longer for the fan cycle at 24C ambient.

Well done to Pleiades for the excellent and analytical responses and help. I hope Brad appreciates this (unpaid) rapid assistance.

I am most definitely very thankful for the extent to which Pleiades has gone to help me both on and off line.

I now know my engine temp is normal so a test ride on another scoot should determine whether it's unique to my bike or not.

Will keep you posted

Cheers
Brad

Sent from my MB526 using Tapatalk 2

Ok UPDATE time

Managed to take another Tenere for a ride to compare my previously mentioned engine heat issues. To my astonishment it was exactly the same as mine. Heat coming from both sides around the ankle to knee area, worse on the header side(LHS).

Not there real bad sometimes but other times enough to feel the sting from heat with jeans on.

At least I now know my bike does not have a unique problem, but does have a problem in my world.

Next step is to try and divert the heat away from me. I know the big KTMs are bad for engine heat not escaping which people seem to be in agreeance with but no one else has mentioned this about their Ten....hmmm....maybe I'm getting fussy in my later years :eusa_think:

Glad you've established it's not the bike - you should be able to sleep a little easier now! ;)

Kevlar lined jeans work well at insulating your legs from radiated heat...