What are the best bhp modifications?
 

Hello Tenere owners. I currently have an XTR but would love a XT660Z Tenere. I test rode one yesterday and think that for me it needs more poke. I am also looking at the Tiger 800xc and 800GS. I much prefer the Tenere, and it's less expensive than the others. Ideally I would like to get a Tenere and increase the bhp with some reliable mods as I am planning some lengthy trips to Iceland and beyond.

Does anyone have any experience and data on what mods add what bhp?

I am no expert and only going on what other folks have said to me and what I plan to do on my own ten, but

Single MTC can, DNA stage 1/2/3 filters, Kev fuel mod.

All very simple to do and fairly inexpensive. I am told that this smooths out the power delivery and gives a wee bit more oomph.

By how much I couldn't tell ya, but there is no end of info in the tenere tech section. Also in Kev's sig bar there is a link to the full list of mods.

Actual numbers [particularly max bhp figures] only tell part of the story, it's also how the power is delivered and where...

Certainly opening up the airbox a bit (I used the DNA filter and stage 2 airbox lid) and a freer flowing exhaust will help, but to get the best out of those mods you really need to create a new map with a PCV, plus remove the OS sensor and get it set up on a dyno... with any luck you'll see around 10% more power, but also typically a corresponding drop in fuel consumption - you have to ask yourself if the expense of all that is really worth the benefit?

There is an old adage that says "big bikes are for people who can't ride small bikes quickly..." I reckon that works for horsepower too?

Jx

ps. If you are going to spend a lot of time on the road, then whatever you do to a Tenere, it will not feel the same as an 80bhp twin... it would thrash either of those in an off-road environment though...

I'm trying to get my ideal bike, and the Tenere is definitely the blue-print for one. I love the off road ability. I used to race sports bike a lot on track and found that end cans even with a power commander don't give a huge amount (5bhp max), you need a full system, but i can't find anywhere that does racing downpipes along with cans.

I have been looking at the engine work off the road.de do. It looks like �1000 there would get 15-20bhp on the bike. My theoretical aim is to reduce the vibes at 80mph through gearing (3 off rear maybe 1 on front too) then compensate for the gearing with power mods. That should make the Tenere great in the mud and great for 8hr stints on the motorway to far flung places (i'm planning Iceland in June 2013 via orkney, shetland and faroe islands).

By all means go for it! but I don't think you'll really get what you are after... to get an extra 15-20 bhp, you'd be looking at major valve work, and quite possibly a big bore too (the US guys can get 75bhp out of the 700cc Raptor engine, or so they say), and chasing max bhp is not the way to go on a bike like this... a consistant 5bhp across the mid range would be far more useful in the real world.

Personally I don't believe you need to change the header either [unless you do it along with the valve and piston work] - the stock Tenere header is already a pretty big bore, and a nice straight/short run compared the underslung pipes on the 600R of course...

Also, rising the gearing as much as you suggest is going to make it appalling off-road! - no amount of power is going to readdress that - in fact all you're likely to end up with a burnt-out clutch...

The bottom line is a long-stroke single cylinder engine running at 6000+ rpm (to get 80mph) is going to be vibey compared to a twin or multi-cylinder engine... I feel you're either going to have to get used to it (no bad thing, I think they call it 'character' in the brochures don't they?!), buy a KTM 690 (which by all accounts is very smooth at high revs), or a twin of some sort?

Value for money wise, the DNA stage 2 / PCV and some sort of single pipe is going to give you the best improvement for the least outlay - anything more and you'll either by spending huge ���s for a minimal increase, and ultimately be compromising the reliability and economy of the bike for travel...

Jx

:046: :laughing4:

And some padded shorts of course x

Jx

I think your missing the point of the adventure. I understand that motorways are good to cover massive distances in lower time but they are really boring and you will end up trying to do similar things like you are at the moment.

Why not either increase you time to complete your route allowing you to either cut the amount of motorways you use and include a good 50% of non motorway roads, or completely dont us motorways.

Other option is just suck it up that no bike is never going to be great at motorways and off roading at the same time. There are always compromises.

I'm planning an Iceland trip which will take 5 days to get there then 3 back, and I can't afford too much time off work in one (Medical Sales) so wanted to beast the motorway up to Aberdeen. I think I just came up with the best option. Cost effective performance mods, 16/42 gears on the bike up to aberdeen with 15/45 and a socket set in the bag to change when the going gets tough and Icelandic!

to me it would appear that you haven't quite embraced the "slow down and enjoy the ride" philosophy required to own a tenere. but then i get my kicks racing enduro so i no longer need the bug eyed thrills on the road looking out for cameras etc while at full throttle :)

80 mph is more than enough to take you to any far off land.

Here is my 50p' s worth: for the trip you plan buy a Super Ten 1200. You will never get a single to do what you want, never. That is why I am lucky enough to have several bikes and I never take the XT660X on the motorway except for very short blasts, it is just not its playground. Have fun and ps I put a pair of Leo Vince cans on mine and that takes off 3kg and makes it both breathe and sound much better too.

I completely agree. I would never go above that, just want to be able to sit there in comfort. Going to try a comfort seat or soft pad to take some vibration off my bum.

Thanks for everyones help, i'll keep my mods minimal, and try to reprogramme my brain to stay at 70!

I reduced my rear sprocket by just 1 tooth when I travelled across spain.
I was still able to do light tracks, but 2nd gear was too fast off road.
On the road it made 1st gear more usable; all the gears 'seemed' longer and revs dropped slightly on motorways.
Just my thoughts, but maybe you wouldn't need such a drastic ratio change.

All this said, I have the X, which I have proven recently isn't the same as the Ten offroad, But still suffers the motorway boredom.

I don't think that's fair,,,, you just had the wrong tyres.

Shrewsbury to Aberdeen is about 400 miles. Even if you assumed it was all motorway, you'd only gain 40 minutes by doing the entire distance at 80mph rather than 70mph. In practice, there's going to be so many places you're going slower than that anyway (non-motorway, traffic, fuel stops) that the time lost to chilling out and going 10mph slower is irrelevant.

(and it's not like you can't go 80mph on standard gearing, just that it will be a bit less comfortable)

I'd also be pretty sure you won't be able to do 16/42 and 15/45 on the same length chain.

I have Kev's encyclopedia now so will be looking through that tonight. Gearing wise I'm going to stick with the 45 (just bought a Renthal Twinring) and will see what a 16 on front is like compared to a 15. Can take both with me easily then and very easy to change. The 16 will just make the wheelbase a little shorter. Going to get an airhawk for my bum to take the vibes off that, the handlebars are ok. BHP mods i will stick to the usual cans, got a K&N already, and then a Power Commander if I can find one cheap enough. That should be fine then.

not sure about the X but on the Z increasing the front sprocket by one tooth would make it far too over geared. it would drop the revs at motorway speed down into the rough revs around the 4k mark.
80mph on the Z is a nice 5k revs.
i'd like to try the one tooth smaller front as this would make it less likely to stall offroad in the technical going and pulling away.

the ten really should have six gears for good motorway cruising but a nice low first gear for trail riding.

I'd have to agree with redbikejohn and Jmo.

These bikes aren't about hp, they're about TORQUE (in any case hp is a product of torque). And at the rear wheel.

The easiest and cheapest surefire way of a guaranteed increase in rear wheel torque is a bigger rear sprocket. (or smaller front - I prefer bigger sprockets as it gives more contact area with the chain - albeit marginal)
I use +2 teeth (chain needs to be 2 links longer at 112) on my Tenere and it is so much better for it. The engine is sooo much more willing. When you are battling the wind barrier at 70-80 (true)mph, taller gearing will put more stress on the engine. Lower gearing on the other hand makes the engine LESS stressed.

Oh, ACCELERATION! :blob1:

Any loss of top speed is in my opinion irrelevent when compared to the benefits (with a new Mefo Explorer rear tyre 5000rpm in top is an indicated 85mph & about 80mph with a worn Explorer). In any case there is still plenty in reserve to break the UK National Speed Limit if that's what you want.
As for fuel consumption...I'll wager that lower gearing is no worse than taller gearing because the engine is more willing and therefore more efficient (less throttle required per given rate of acceleration & the ability to hold a higher gear at lower speeds). For any long term benefit to fuel consumption with taller gearing at motorway speeds you'd need to be riding in a vacuum! (or always have the wind behind you/be going downhill).

I have been using a popular aftermarket single silencer for the last few months (also have a K&N air filter - but that was purely to keep maintenance costs down) but I refitted the original silencer at the weekend because my Ten had been running rich. Interestingly, the bike feels better for it.

Of course a lot will depend on an individuals riding style and environment. The above is just my findings after 108,000 miles of courier use (town/country/motorway) with 15/47 final ratio and mostly getting 220 miles (indicated - actual is now x [45/47] )to reserve

You pays your money..........


BTW, if you do go for performance enhancing mods, don't forget to inform your insurance company.

Hate to say it, but I don't think the Ten is the right bike for what you want if you want the high speed motorway killing bike.

With an opened airbox and free breathing silencer it's going to be rather noisy and a pain for being on for long distances.

You can still do decent distances on the bike as it is. Even spunking a grand on tuning is not going to make it a fun bike on motorways.

Rick, am I right in thinking +2 on the back is the same as -1 on the front, or is it +3 on the back?

Shouldn't that be the other way round? ;) Worn tyre should give a higher speed at the speedo, smaller circumference, more rotations per mile.

Yep -1 on front equals +3 on rear. Going smaller on front does tend to increase wear on sprocket and chain guides though.

Yeah. I was pondering that yesterday afternoon when returning to Guildford from Brackley (A43/M40/A34/M4/A33..etc.....nice ride!) It didn't make sense.

But.........a larger wheel/circumference essentially raises the gearing......therefore enabling lower revs per given speed and vice versa higher speed per given revs.

Amen to that!

Having refitted the OEM silencer my Ten feels like a new bike again........well, not quite so old and abused. It was clearly missing significant back pressure and the engine feels a bit smoother and tighter. Being a courier I also like the stealth mode of being able to chuff along at a fair rate of knots without sounding like it.

As for gearing:
15/45 = 0.3333
14/45 = 0.3111 *
15/47 = 0.319
15/48 = 0.3125 *

I bought Kev's encyclopedia. It's a fountain of knowledge. The most cost effective thing I can do bhp wise is fit a stage 2 DNA (the bike came with a stage 1 K&N). That should add around 3.5bhp ish. I have a 16 tooth front which will lower the revs at 80mph from around 5000 to 4700. With a 110 link chain it will shorten the wheelbase by 3.5mm which is perfectly acceptable. I'll test that setup and go from there (this is on my XTR).

The XT660 engine produces max torque around 5,500 rpm. Don't be afraid of revs - they can actually smooth out some vibes .
Much better to have a more willing engine with less throttle at higher revs than one bogged down at lower revs.
In terms of vibration, big singles suffer more from low rpm abuse than high rpm.

3.5hp gain is not even 10%. You'll get far better/useable gains by lowering the gearing especially for offroading.

Good luck with what you decide. It's a great choice of bike - hope it's the right one for you.

A XTX has the front axle more in line with the forks & a smaller
front wheel.. all adds up to less rake, less trail.. the geomitrey
would be somewhere between a dirt bike & road bike...

Yeah. I've been pondering this one too! :icon_scratch: I reckon, the effective gearing lowers as the tyre wears down (as you say), resulting in a lower "real" top speed from any given revs in top, but (here's the rub) you'll only notice it on a GPS not on the bike's speedo. The bike's speedo will become more and more optimistic as the rear wears, which will occur at an identical ratio to that by which the gearing is lowering. Therefore I think, the speedo will read the same in 5th at 5000rpm with a new or worn tyre, but the actual road speed will decrease with a worn tyre... :confused1:

Ugg.......now my head hurts! :dontknow:

108,000 miles of courier use :partyondude: your a hero !

Nah, not me. It's the bike that's the hero!
:love4:

And it's because I'm a courier (returning to OP's thread) and have to keep costs to a minimum I will always extol the virtues of appropriate gearing before expensive exhausts and engine mods.
Tried a different silencer but the bike needed more money spent on tuning/re-mapping.

Trying out a different courier company next week that appear to be much busier so mileage should be going up faster soon.
On track for 200,000 km's, but what about 200,000 miles?? Sweepsteak anyone?!

was talking to a courier other week @ e14 & he had a Deuville Honda with 180k on it :incon_aargh[1]:

Yeah, that's par for the course. Typically about 50k miles a year I guess. I've only averaged about 35k miles a year but the last year in particular has been c**p. Trying out a new company tomorrow that seem to be alot busier and have better rates for distance work. Just hope the Tenere will last long enough until I have enough funds for a replacement (and to renovate my DR800).

Oops....sorry, waffling off topic again.

Did I mention that the most cost effective way of an increase in rear wheel torque is lower gearing?
:thumbsup: