New engine oil change at 100 km
 

I read long ago , here :

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/NewBike.html

quote :

"When you take out your factory oil, if you hold it up in the sunlight you'll see the color is very good, it looks almost completely unused, but you'll see lots of reflections from metal flakes in the oil. These flakes are very bad for your engine, and can clog up your oil filter so that your filter bypass is activated, meaning you effectively don't have an oil filter. Notice that the factory says you should still be using the factory oil and oil filter. I think this is insane. "



that the first couple hours running a new engine would generate a huge amount of metallic sludge that it would be good to get rid of as soon as possible. I've applied this to the new honda XR 250 I bought a few years ago and now to my new T�n�r�, but this time the result was much more visible. The oil was a metallic grey and it seems the filter was already overwhelmed by the amount of metal that it picked up. I suppose that running the bike up to the regular 1000 km first oil change with that kind of sludge in the motor wouldn't be a good thing to do (think of all the finely machined parts, such as bearings). Let the pictures speak for themselves : The filter at 100 km first oil change :

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg836...pg&res=landing

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg685...pg&res=landing




Lineup of filters from 100, 200 and 500 km oil changes :

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg252...pg&res=landing

Thanks for the info I am sure some of the guys will find it interesting.

I hope you used mineral oil in the motor during the running in period, otherwise you could have problems with oil usage on your XT motor, these motors have chrome bores & need mineral oil to bed the rings in.

Looking at your link, I disagree with using synthetic oil in a chrome bore while running in the motor XT660 motor & I speak for 32 years experience of being a mechanic, from your link there are so many holes in the mans statements it is a joke, one being a he considers a modern motorcycle motor anything from 1985, please where have you been, engine materials have changed so much in the last 10 years & the oils have progreed so much as well, you can't say every motor in the world needs the same running procudure that is rubbish.

If there were no signs of metal in your oil I would be surprised as this is quite normal for a motor that is ruining in. The XT filters are designed to run past 10000kms/60000miles you are waisting you money replacing them every 100kms during the running in period.

Not getting up you, there is no problem changing oil at any time interval just be carefull what you read on the internet.

Didn't know about synthetic oil being bad for seating the rings, living & learning. I use Motul 5100, semi-synthetic, but since that went in only after the first hours running the engine, much of the seating would already have occurred, or at least that is what i'd like to think. Anyway, the oil and filter both looked so bad after 100 km I decided to change again at 200 to see what would come out, and this time around it may have been unnecessary, but still i'm glad that first oil wasn't in the engine for very long. It's a small expense compared to what a new bike costs, and it doesn't hurt to be on the safe side. It's also interesting to notice that even so the 500 km filter looks slightly better than the 200 km one. And yes, surely oil filters are designed to last a long time, but that's under normal operating conditions.

Interestingly, these frequent oil/filter changes for new engines are recommended elsewhere, as here for example:

http://www.sacoriver.net/~red/breakin.html

The oil filter is there to catch all the metal particles, the oil will not break down during the running in period, if there was a problem we would see it in the industry.

As mentioned I have been a in the motor industry for 32 years & have never seen any problems running the oil & filter to the recommended service interval. I deal with 90 to 100 vehicles a day in the workshop I run, we sell around 150 units a month, if there was a problem we would see it.

I think these articles put fear into riders, I wonder how many motors these guys are stripping a week to test there theory's long term.

In your last link the man is talking about chokes & jetting we left carburetors many years ago, I would like to see him measure crankcase pressure on a 2 stroke when running it in.

I changed my OE oil at 1000km with mineral 15w50 Yamaha oil due to being 12 months old (bike was a dealer demo). Then at 2500km I changed to full synthetic Motul 300v so far at the 4000km mark the oil level is unchanged. I think 10000km on a mineral oil is a bit too much for the oil, the mineral oil that had done 1500km was discoloured and smelt like it needed to be changed. Now that the Motul has done 1500km it has hardly discoloured and doesn't smell bad either, another 1000km and it will be changed.

This is coffee filter paper that a beaker of the first oil drained through; it's clear to see that there's plenty of fine metal in the oil, the oil filter nonwithstanding.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg197...pg&res=landing

A friend of mine I talked about this with, having worked for a bearing manufacturer, told me about the very strict quality control procedure there concerning metal residues that might be left over from the machining process, and he found it quite possible that in this case this oil containing metal particles would be damaging to the bearings in the engine in the long run. I would definitely flush that out as soon as I could.

Still it is reassuring to learn that no significant problems have been noted with the standard procedure.

Just speculating, that might be because the hard metal filings coming from the crankcase (that could really cause damage) would indeed be efficiently caught by the oil filter, and this greyish matter still present in the oil, being softer metal (from the cylinder wall maybe ?) would not be so harmful.

If it came from the cyilinder, well that would mean my rings have set properly, wouldn't it ?

On run in most of the metal would be coming from the gearbox. Personally I think the change at 100km was a bit of a overkill maybe 500km for the first, but it is hard to go past your pictures of the filters stacked up against each other. Would have been interesting to have the oils analysed at the 100km, 200km and 500km oil changes to see contaminates in the oil. I do agree with Kev in saying that mineral oil should have been used in the run in period. Another note would be the run in period would vary dependent on the individual person and bike.

Quite so, the famous (or infamous) Motoman will tell you to ride it hard at break-in :

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I think his argument makes sense, namely that it is the pressure inside the cylinder that forces the rings against the wall and that therefore babying the engine will not seat the rings. It has been noted however that because of the metal in the oil at this stage, running the engine at high revs will force this debris all the more into bearings and other nooks and crannies. So probably it would be best to change the oil after 20 miles, as he says by then most of the wearing will already have taken place, and then only run hard to seat the rings.

Quite a fine art really.



Incidentally, the same advice as to changing the oil frequently during this period can be found there, quote :

" Q: What's the third most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Not changing the oil soon enough after the engine is first run !!

Change Your Oil Right Away !!
The best thing you can do for your engine is to change your oil and filter after the first 20 miles. Most of the wearing in process happens immediately, creating a lot of metal in the oil. Plus, the amount of leftover machining chips and other crud left behind in the manufacturing process is simply amazing !! You want to flush that stuff out before it gets recycled and embedded in the transmission gears, and oil pump etc...

Why do the manufacturers recommend waiting until 600 miles to
flush out all the loose metal ???

This is a good question ... "



Another thing worth getting rid of that I remember having read about is the casting sand residue that will always be present in a new engine.

Just on this...when I first bought an XR400 new...the handbook stated run the engine in for 25kms as far as I can remember....

There you have it.....

After that change the oil and ride as normal...

Just say'in like...

:)

when i got my XT660Z from the dealers i ran it 300km then changed the oil to Motul 10-50W, replaced the oil filter and switched to a OEM magnetic drain plug. There was fine metal shavings and "sludge" all from engine break in.. 2nd oil change was done at 1100km, removing the magnetic plug i discovered a buildup of more particles around the tip however the oil filter was not covered in as much metal.

i think the manuals 1000km is a bit long winded.. JMO