Engine Management Light and dead Tenere
 

Hi folks,

Last week I finally fitted the DNA stage 3 filters and Kev mod so thanks to CaptMoto and Kev for supplying that equipment. They made a huge difference to the bike and in fact it felt like I was riding someone else's bike !

Drove 5 hours on friday and was returning yesterday when I ran into problems. I was about 40 mins into the journey and the orange engine management light came on but the bike seemed to be running fine. After 15 seconds or so the entire digital display turned on and about 5 seconds later, the speedo switched off. With that the engine cut out.

When the ignition is turned on, the dash lights up as normal but we're getting a clicking/knocking sound from the starter relay once the starter button is pressed. The dash can power off and on while attempting to start it. All fuses and wiring seems intact.

With the igintion on, the engine management light turns on for 5 long and 5 short spurts so I'm sure this is some error code.

I've left the bike with a local mechanic so fingers crossed he'll be able to sort it. After some searching here it seems people are pointing to the voltage regulator and it's connectors so we'll check it out.

Any other hint or tips out there ?

This is exactly the problem. You must check the connections between the loom connector and reg/ rectifier where they clip together. You can seaqrch this forum for the problems that others have encountered but your description of the problem is the classic 'has not been assembled' properly. I know because my bike was the first to have this problem. The pins at this connector are very small and you will find that the earthing pin might well be balckened. If it has not deteriorated too much you should be able to clean it up and then fill the connector with vaseline or grease and clip back together firmly. You should hear an audible 'click'
If the problem has been there for a while the terminals might have heated up and distorted the connector making it unreliable to make a good connection, this is where your Warrenty will come into play as some have had thier entire loom replaced. Yamaha are aware of this problem and you among many that have had this situation. All because of bad assembly.

Hope this helps. Have a look at other threads on this subject and tell your mechanis to turn his attention to the connector.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

SteveD

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. I'll be passing all this info onto my mechanic as I had to return to my workplace and must organise to collect the bike once it's sorted.

In relation to the warranty on possible loom problem, my bike is September 2008 but I purchased it 2nd hand in November 2009. Do you think it would still be covered or is it just covered 12 months from new ?

I may stand corrected on this but I was under the impression that the warrenty was for TWO years.
I'm sure someone will be along to confirm or dismiss this.

Cheers SteveD

No need to be corrected - two years.

Damomac - you'll have to take your chances with section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act ("fit for purpose"). However, I have no idea whether anyone here has tried to claim from Yamaha for rectifier/loom repair out of warranty and how successful they were? There's loads here about this issue, have a search...

Here's a couple to get you going...

http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?...ight=regulator

http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?...ight=regulator

Really, two years? In Norway we have five years full warranty

He is in Ireland.... :icon_king:

To use the Sales of Goods Act, you only have a claim against the business that sold you the goods, not the manufacturer. The dealer (assuming it was a dealer) would then need to make a claim against the buisness they bought it from, very messy with second hand goods, especially if they were not the supplying dealer initially. But in the end, as a customer you shouldn't concern yourself with what the supplier has to do. The law is there to protect consumers.

I'm not aware of any dealers being brought to book over this act. I know Bear had an issue with his ignition and was armed with the information he needed, but the dealer capitulated before he had to use the Act.

The 2 year warrenty, is a European Warrenty, so you are OK in Ireland.

Interesting about Norway, is the 5 year warrenty somehow supported by local legislation ? I can't see Yamaha offering different warrenties unless they are forced to.

Thanks for that folks. Found the manual and it states 2 year warranty for anything over 250cc.

I believe the law says something like 2 years, but if the problem/issue is regarding something that should last longer than 2 years, then it's 5. If you get an issue after 3-4 years, you will normally have to argue a bit with the dealer, though. But, when it's stated 5 year warranty from Yamaha then there is no problem getting things fixed.

Maybe Norway is "special". Even BMW(!) has 3 year warranty on their bikes here.
This year all car brands have adopted 5 year warranty as well.

Well spotted - didn't look close enough!

hi damomac, the regulator failure's a bit of a bummer, but not a hard one to sort out.

about 20,000 miles ago i replaced mine with a more suitable unit off a yamaha fazer 600, secondhand on ebay i gave �14 all in.

it has 5 wires; black, red & 3 whites. cut off the inferior connector and connect with corresponding colours, the whites [generator phases] are non specific to the regulator [any order]. now my connector probably is the weak link, perhaps in the future i will hard wire to the loom, soldering & heat shrinking to create a perfect join

because the 'new' reg has about 8'' of loom it's easy to point the wires down to stop any water ingress, secure the loom out of harms way. the reg needs a slight adjustment to align the holes, better to ream out the mounting plate and jobs done. now start the bike check the battery voltage should be above 13v with a voltmeter

reg with removable connector

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...yprep013-1.jpg

Thanks for that Stoic Bloke and everyone else.

Spoke with mechanic and he confirmed it was regulator so he has one on order. I should have the bike back sometime next week and am really missing it.

Got the bike back and running great now with new regulator and DNA filters (thanks CaptMoto & Kev).

I started of using a balloon which soon perished so I have ended up using a part of a cycle inner tube which is still in one piece.

My bike is from 2009 and had the same at around 60.000km. Loom was replaced under warranty. Now that I am out of warranty I greased the connection to prevent corrosion.

My bike has been going great since the new regulator was fitted but I had a bit of a fustrating moment yesterday 1.5 hrs into a 4 hr journey. All was fine but suddenly the engine management light came on. Weather was nice and warm (seldom happens in Ireland :) ) so 1st thing to do was to get off the motorway.

Once I shut off the engine and read the code's, it stated 46 which the service manual refers to as

"Power Supply to the fuel injection system relay is not normal"

I shut off the ignition and put it back on, the light disappeared. As I didn't fancy getting stranded on a bank holiday weekend, I decided to return to base. All was fine on the way home, no more engine management lights but of course now the big question is, will it happen again.

The battery is the original (2008) and starts the bike every time I've tried to do so.

Any thoughts or experiences ?

hi for me, first check the battery, good connection? now check the voltage with the motor running, should be above 13v. was the connector or loom replaced? sounds like the terminal may have failed again

Negative terminal was ever so slightly loose although just noticed this once I got home, after the light staying off.

The original loom is still on this bike but the regulator was changed 2 months ago.

Must replace my multimeter and will check voltage once I get back home.

Thanks SB!

I just had this exact same problem 2 weeks ago. At 8000 Km (!) the engine orange light came on. After turning the engine off it wouldn't start again. It would only give a strange sound from the starter.
Went to the dealer and they replaced the entire wiring system and the rectifier (under warranty).
According to them, this happened because I have a Touratech Rectifier cover. I almost sent the guy to a place I know... :icon_rolleyes:

I finally measured my battery yesterday, getting 12.9V with engine off and 13.8V with the engine running. These seem ok.

However while driving in the rain yesterday for a few hours, my code 46 & engine management light came back on for a while. This was 10 mins after I tried to switch on my Oxford Hotgrips but they wouldn't come on. The lights on the Oxford switch unit did flash a few times. I know these have a safety feature in that they will not power on if the voltage drops below 10.5V.

After shutting off the engine and starting it up again, it did turn over ever so slowly prior to firing up so it looks like by battery is on the way out. I've a 2008 bike and it has the original battery. It's kept outside all year round and I've never had to charge it.

I purchased a new battery on saturday and for the following 20 mins I really enjoyed the drive thinking that all the problems were in the past when all of a sudden, my friendly engine management light came back on so it appears that my bike is unable to charge the battery.

All electrics died 2 mins after this light and the engine will then cut out and fail to start. Pretty much the same symptoms when my rectifier packed in. We tried to push start the bike but failed so ended up swapping batteries with my mates CBR-600F. His bike is able to charge both of my batteries and my bike will last 20-30 mins before the light comes back on followed by no electrics and engine cut out.

Anyway, it's in with the local mechanic. He questioned the generator but will check it all out.

I doubt it is the reg/rec unit itself that is the problem, either the new one or your original to be honest...

The problem [based on what you're saying, and has happened to other people] is the bad connection between the loom and the reg/rec...

If you imagine the AC power from the generator comes up the loom, through the connector block and into the reg/rec, where it is converted to DC and sent out again (through the same connector block) to the loom and the battery, where the DC power is stored.

If there is a bad connection on any or all of the terminals on the connector block to the reg/rec, then either enough AC is not getting through to the reg/rec, or not enough DC is not getting out from the reg/rec through the loom to the battery - which is why your battery is not charging, and ultimately draining when the bike is being ridden.

I very much doubt it is a faulty generator or reg/rec, or indeed the battery - but the connector itself.

The battery however my be shot, as if it has been discharged a lot/been running on a low voltage/not enough charge from the reg/rec. it can be weakened so it doesn't hold a charge properly... While it might show a healthy voltage connected and with the engine running, try starting the bike with a meter connected and see how much the voltage drops.

If the engine does start ok, then immediately shut off the engine, then check your voltage on the battery terminals again - starting an engine (especially a big 660cc single) uses a lot of cranking amps, and you may find that once the battery has started the engine, their is a lot less juice in it - I had a similar problem with a little-used battery on another bike. Put it on the trickle charger, and it showed just under 14v 'charged'. As soon as I tried to start the bike, the reading dropped to under 10V and the starter wouldn't even fire. A new battery and everything worked just fine (the reason my old battery was shot was it had been left connected but not on a trickle charger for over 18 months - I'll remember to disconnect the battery if the bike is laid up in future!)

But do make sure the connecter to the reg/rec is sorted, otherwise you'll just kill a new battery too...

Jx

Thank you Jenny for your detailed explanation of the electrics. I see there's 2 other reports of this problem on here and it does indeed look like the connector is causing the problem.

I can't test or measure anything as the bike is with the dealer but I will certainly pass this info onto him.

Cheers.

No problem - hope you get it sorted!

Motorcycle electrics are a black art, which I am slowly learning myself, but hopefully that explanation will help anyone else trying to work out the whys and wherefores...

Jx

I have the bike back. The mechanic said he just moved the loom close to the regulator and the bike started charging and hasn't stopped since. The connector to the regulator was dry so he put some of that electrical grease in there.

All else seems grand so I'm back on the road again. I do think it will take me a little while to build the confidence back up again.

Anyway, if it happens again, I'm gonna wiggle the cables !!!:happy7:

For us non-native English speakers, what exactly is "loom"?
I gather its not this:
http://images.google.com/search?tbm=...29l355l1.2l3l0

Hee hee - it does look a bit like that inside the plastic sleeving though!

Yes, the 'Loom', or more accurately 'wiring loom' that Damomac is referring to is the collection of wires that are wrapped together and link the different electrical items on the bike (or any vehicle).

Jx

Glad to hear it's working... As long as the pins/plates inside each side of the connector block are correctly positioned within the plastic, and not dirty or bent, then when you fit the connector block to the top of the reg/rec, you should hear an audible 'click' as it snaps home, making a good connection.

Some use grease, which will help keep any moisture out, likewise a rubber boot over the connector (a length of bicycle inner tube and a couple of zip-ties does the trick)...

However, if the pins are not making a good connection initially, then it's not moisture that is really the problem, rather then current arcing across the contacts and leaving a carbon deposit, which in time brakes the connection completely - hence no charging...

Keep an eye on it like you say, but if in any doubt, clean out the pins and plates on each side of the connector, and use a pin (or other small poiking object) to make sure the pins and connector plates are seated correctly and not loose in the plastic housing, then click everything back together, and you should have no further trouble...

Jx

I had only put an old bicycle tube over the connector last week but will dig out another one.

Thanks Jenny !

Problem is back again and bike returned to local dealer. He says the regulator and generator are working fine but once he moves or shakes the loom, it breaks the connection and charging stops.

I did inform him of a few looms being replaced by Yamaha so he contacted one of Yamaha UK's technicians. They denied their being any recalls or widespread replacements of looms on these bikes. My bike is 3 years old so out of warranty.

I'm currently searching threads on here to get an idea of how many looms have been replaced by Yamaha on these bikes.

Just as well the bike is in the garage as the weather is absolute crap here ! :)

hi if you want, get a fz or fazer600 regulator [ebays a great source] and give me a shout i'll fit it as i live up the road from you in killean. that should end your charging woes

Hi Bernard,

Thanks very much for the offer. I really do appreciate it. Bike is currently with R P M down the road from me and I have passed onto them details of your fix and others experiences with getting looms replaced. Let's see what they can do for me.

After a bit of searching on the site here I've noted that about 15 XT660Z owners have had looms replaced.

Glad to hear you're getting it sorted...

It's not so much the loom that is the problem, just the connector that goes onto the reg/rec - the problem is that connector is part of the whole loom, rather than on a sub section (that could be disconnected independently if you see what I mean), therefore it is much more of a job for the dealer to do, as they have to strip half the bike down to get the old loom off, just to replace one connector. Is it any wonder Yamaha are reticent to do this as a recall?!

As Bernard says, the 'sensible' modification would be to cut the original connector off, and either replace the stock reg/rec (and connector) with another type and joint it with your own connector block or bullets; or to solder the wires directly to the OEM reg/rec and put a decent connector between it and the rest of the loom.

Jx

Thanks Jenny.

Looks like we're gonna go with the Fazer regulator fix.

Will report back once I'm back on the road.

Thanks for help folks.

Got the Fazer regulator fitted and now everything seems perfect.

Thanks again people for the help.